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Message
re: Jennifer Crumbly (school shooter mom) verdict in: Guilty of involuntary manslaughter
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:40 pm to LNCHBOX
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:40 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
So every parent should be charged when their child breaks the law? What a completely asinine thought.
Literally nobody is saying every parent whose child breaks the law should be charged.
I keep seeing people make comments like “so if my kid steals my car and hits someone, I go to jail?” as if the decision is whether to charge all parents for the crimes of their children, or none. However, it’s just as easy to throw out hypotheticals like “what if a parent knowingly leaves a loaded handgun in their 9 year old kid’s room, he takes it to school, and he shoots someone?”
If your reaction is “but that’s not what happened here,” that’s the point. It’s not black and white. Negligence is inherently subjective. At some point it has to come down to how a reasonable person would have acted.
I can understand questioning whether Jennifer Crumbley should be held criminally responsible for her son’s actions. I don’t really understand why people seem to be so hung up on the idea of any parent being held criminally responsible for their kid’s actions.
1
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:42 pm to lostinbr
quote:
I can understand questioning whether Jennifer Crumbley should be held criminally responsible for her son’s actions. I don’t really understand why people seem to be so hung up on the idea of any parent being held criminally responsible for their kid’s actions.
I don't see how you can say these sentences back to back.
Also, my bigger issue is if she is guilty, how do the counselors/admin that also didn't send the kid home escape punishment? How is there no negligence there?
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:43 pm to m2pro
quote:
buying guns is legal giving them to your kids is legal being a bad parent is legal
There’s already a legal precedent here (quoting George Carlin).
1) Selling is legal
2) Fricking is legal
3) Selling fricking (prostitution) is illegal.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:46 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
How is there no negligence there?
Because the parents knew they broke the law and knew the kid had the weapon.
The counselors would have had no reason to think the same.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:48 pm to Volvagia
quote:
The counselors would have had no reason to think the same.
So in the meeting that day they were unaware of the drawings?
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:48 pm to Will Munny
Good.
She needed to be held responsible.
She needed to be held responsible.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:48 pm to IT_Dawg
quote:I don't necessarily disagree with your overall premise but my pushback would be(and correct me if I have details wrong here) they bought a 9mm handgun for a 15 year old kid but never knew why he wanted it or what he wanted to use it for?
The parents believed he had some mental issues, but nothing on this level. The parents went to school the morning of the shooting cause a he drew a disturbing picture of his gun and blood. Parents and administrators decided the kid could stay at school that day.
There were a lot of mistakes here and I do feel the parents have some to blame, but to charge them with involuntary manslaughter is crazy here. They never knew what the gun was for
I think it's all true that they knew he'd had some delusions or drawings of killing kid at school or something along those lines? I think you put all that together and buying him a gun just cause, this one feels a bit different IMO...but I'm not completely well versed on the facts.
But yea, it does create a slippery slope going forward.
This post was edited on 2/6/24 at 3:55 pm
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:49 pm to m2pro
quote:
giving them to your kids is legal
It literally isn’t.
I know Jim Bob and Thibodeaux here are used to having a gun before the age of 8, but many states have laws as to the minimum age it’s acceptable to give a kid a long gun or a hand gun.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:50 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Also, my bigger issue is if she is guilty, how do the counselors/admin that also didn't send the kid home escape punishment? How is there no negligence there?
Did they provide him the weapon?
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:52 pm to Volvagia
quote:
It literally isn’t.
Do you have a link to the law? The ATF doesn't agree with you
This post was edited on 2/6/24 at 3:54 pm
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:52 pm to notbilly
quote:
Did they provide him the weapon?
Is that the only negligence at play?
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:54 pm to LNCHBOX
You keep on trying to equate the two, but the fact remains your judgement of one is based on hindsight, and the other was with willful knowledge.
The counselor was concerned and he addressed it.
What you think is appropriate? Every time a kid acts “off” is an automatic suspension/expulsion?
The counselor was concerned and he addressed it.
What you think is appropriate? Every time a kid acts “off” is an automatic suspension/expulsion?
This post was edited on 2/6/24 at 3:56 pm
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:55 pm to Will Munny
My kid would be so grounded if he did this to me.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:57 pm to Volvagia
quote:
You keep on trying to equate the two, but the fact remains your judgement of one is based on hindsight, and the other was with willful knowledge.
Willful knowledge he was going to shoot the school up? IF she had that knowledge, was it not brought up at the school meeting?
quote:
The counselor was concerned and he addressed it.
What you think is appropriate? Every time a kid acts “off” is an automatic expulsion?
Yes, I'm the one building strawmen in this thread
Posted on 2/6/24 at 4:06 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
The ATF doesn't agree with you
Are you really that stupid?
ATF doesn’t have sole jurisdiction of firearms.
So no, while it’s not banned nationwide, as under 18 U.S.C. 922, there ARE places with more restrictive laws. And even the ATF site acknowledges it.
quote:
There may be state or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements.
Michigan doesn’t allow kids to even TOUCH a gun under the age of 18 unless a parent/guardian is directly present and supervising.
(§ 750.223(2))
Posted on 2/6/24 at 4:07 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
These people should be more responsible than the parents as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, sure. The people who knew the kid best b/c they raised him, knew he had issues b/c he told them, refused to help w/said issues, and bought him the gun are less responsible than the school staff that took them at their word the kid was ok. Sure sure sure.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 4:09 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Willful knowledge he was going to shoot the school up?
Willful knowledge he had the tools to play out what was drawn.
Are you saying the tone of the picture isn’t dramatically changed with the knowledge that he had full and unrestricted access to the same weapon depicted in the picture?
Posted on 2/6/24 at 4:12 pm to Will Munny
quote:
Jennifer Crumbly (school shooter mom) verdict in: Guilty of involuntary manslaughter
Well, that’s the way the cookie Crumbley.
Posted on 2/6/24 at 4:12 pm to Scooby
quote:
So I buy my son a truck. He has a mental break one day and drives through a parade route and kills people. I’m now liable for negligent homicide?
If I'm called to school b/c my kid is drawing pictures of himself plowing over people in the truck I bought him I sure as shite am not going to let him still have access to it until he's seen a mental health professional several times.
This post was edited on 2/6/24 at 4:14 pm
Posted on 2/6/24 at 4:12 pm to Will Munny
This should happen to every parent whose kid under the age of 18 commits a felony.
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