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Started By
Message
Is ATC the next profession primed for "automation" in the wake of this crash?
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:43 am
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:43 am
It was a very long time ago but I recall a story about how shockingly manual the ATC job was and how little technological assistance they had.
11
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:54 am to sidewalkside
AI taking control of our planes? What could go wrong?
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 11:55 am
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:54 am to sidewalkside
It sounds like the told the pilot what to do. He just didn't do it.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:16 pm to sidewalkside
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:19 pm to chryso
Yep ATC gave the helicopter all the information to travel and the helicopter crew didn’t heed that information. Nothing else the ATC could have done. 99.99% of all accidents are not the ATC fault
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:27 pm to SWLA92
quote:
Nothing else the ATC could have done
Well, that's certainly not true.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:30 pm to sidewalkside
quote:
about how shockingly manual the ATC job was and how little technological assistance they had.
You can thank their union for that.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:40 pm to SWLA92
quote:
Yep ATC gave the helicopter all the information to travel and the helicopter crew didn’t heed that information.
More likely that the helicopter pilot thought he was complying but misidentified which traffic ATC was referring to.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:44 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
More likely that the helicopter pilot thought he was complying but misidentified which traffic ATC was referring to.
My assumption as well. Odd ATC didn't give directional information.
I also think ATC failed to realize the helicopter's altitude and/or failed to instruct them to change their altitude as part of the avoidance maneuver.
The Helicopter shouldn't have been put in that position in the first place, which is the ATC's fault. The helicopter failed following the instructions they were given, but they were not given good ones. Plenty of poor choices and human error to go around.
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:46 pm to sidewalkside
The union says frick all that.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:47 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
The Helicopter shouldn't have been put in that position in the first place, which is the ATC's fault.
Nope. The helo put himself there. He called traffic in sight and was VFR. ATC expected him to remain clear.
ETA- I would guess that if ATC had a collision alert, but not sure.
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:48 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
I also think ATC failed to realize the helicopter's altitude and/or failed to instruct them to change theit altitude as part of the avoidance maneuver.
Both of these vehicles likely have TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System) equipped on them.
The issue is that below 1,000 feet, the system doesn't give you avoidance instructions, just tells you there is traffic in the area. Since the helicopter knew about the traffic, they just ignored that. Not sure what happened with the plane when their TCAS alerted (if anything).
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:50 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
You are way off
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:51 pm to sidewalkside
Radar will continue to give way to technology, but the immediate airport environment will need humans for a while longer.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:53 pm to slacker130
quote:
Nope. The helo put himself there. He called traffic in sight and was VFR. ATC expected him to remain clear.
Not what i'm saying.
ATC should not have given them the direction to pass behind the traffic like they did. They should have immediately told them where to divert to and what altitude to be at.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:55 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
The issue is that below 1,000 feet, the system doesn't give you avoidance instructions, just tells you there is traffic in the area. Since the helicopter knew about the traffic, they just ignored that. Not sure what happened with the plane when their TCAS alerted (if anything).
100%
Not saying helicopter doesn't deserve plenty of blame here either. Just taking issue with the statement I originally responded to that "there was nothing else ATC could do".
That is just objectively false.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:55 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
More likely that the helicopter pilot thought he was complying but misidentified which traffic ATC was referring to.
A simple and tragic mistake?
That can't be right.
Daddy Trump already said it was DEI and Biden at fault!
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:56 pm to sidewalkside
While tragic, out of the millions of flights, one went wrong.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 1:01 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
The Helicopter shouldn't have been put in that position in the first place, which is the ATC's fault. The helicopter failed following the instructions they were given, but they were not given good ones. Plenty of poor choices and human error to go around
VFR pilots are solely responsible for visually identifying and avoiding all aircraft in the airspace. Essentially it was up to the pilot to change altitude and direction, especially when the called traffic in sight.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 1:02 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
100%
Not saying helicopter doesn't deserve plenty of blame here either. Just taking issue with the statement I originally responded to that "there was nothing else ATC could do".
That is just objectively false.
100% of the responsibility when flying VFR is with the pilot to see and avoid all aircraft in the airspace. ATC was doing them a courtesy calling out the traffic.
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