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How the Army sabotaged the M16
Posted on 3/26/25 at 8:48 am
Posted on 3/26/25 at 8:48 am
This guy went into a deep dive on the M16's problems in Vietnam. Turn out, the Army Ordnance Dept was in bed with Springfield and was really ticked off it was forced to buy the M16.
Curtis LeMay got it for his security forces and Special Forces adopted it as well. They were the first members of the military to purchase it. They loved it. Passed all the tests with flying colors. Then it got to Vietnam and it was a disaster. Many troops killed during firefights because their guns jammed. What happened?
Ordnance changed the specs. Got rid of the chrome barrel so now the barrels became problematic, filled with gunk. The troops were not issued cleaning kits because they were supposed to be self-cleaning. Troops had to ask their families to send cleaning kits. The worst problem was Ordinance changed the bullet to a ball propellant that required 25% or more pressure. The increased pressure wrecked the rifle as well as it's performance.
Finally a House committee investigated and caught all this crap. Found documents were Ordinance changed the specs and sabotaged the rifle. Finally in 68 a corrected version was made and the problems started disappearing.
Curtis LeMay got it for his security forces and Special Forces adopted it as well. They were the first members of the military to purchase it. They loved it. Passed all the tests with flying colors. Then it got to Vietnam and it was a disaster. Many troops killed during firefights because their guns jammed. What happened?
Ordnance changed the specs. Got rid of the chrome barrel so now the barrels became problematic, filled with gunk. The troops were not issued cleaning kits because they were supposed to be self-cleaning. Troops had to ask their families to send cleaning kits. The worst problem was Ordinance changed the bullet to a ball propellant that required 25% or more pressure. The increased pressure wrecked the rifle as well as it's performance.
Finally a House committee investigated and caught all this crap. Found documents were Ordinance changed the specs and sabotaged the rifle. Finally in 68 a corrected version was made and the problems started disappearing.
This post was edited on 3/26/25 at 10:37 am
14
Posted on 3/26/25 at 9:05 am to prplhze2000
Not chrome lining a barrel in a moist jungle environment is a recipe for disaster.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 9:05 am to prplhze2000
I cant read this shite, it makes me sick they were asking family to send cleaning kits.
What did we do to these poor men.
What did we do to these poor men.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 9:11 am to jizzle6609
He gets into the sabotage about halfway through.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 9:17 am to prplhze2000
It is amazing at how negligent senior officers and certain parts of the armed forces can act with seemingly no consequences. If you want another case study in incompetence take a look at the issues the US Navy had with torpedoes in the early part of ww2.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 9:25 am to prplhze2000
Don't tell me the government is benign or enlightened.
Our entire history is a series of examples of our government doing horrible things and covering it up after the fact:
-congress failing to supply our troops during the revolution and leaving them to starve
-mass corruption and suspension of habeas corpus during the civil war
-an orchestrated war for expansion against Spain in which we blew up our own naval vessel killing hundreds
-testing horrible diseases and chemicals on soldiers
- leaving our troops out to die in Vietnam with ordinance designed to fail and dumping agent orange on them without safety protocols in place
-refusing to allow rules of engagement during the wars on terror that would keep our troops safe and equipped for the threats they encountered
Anyone who trusts our government or the media is a fool.
Our entire history is a series of examples of our government doing horrible things and covering it up after the fact:
-congress failing to supply our troops during the revolution and leaving them to starve
-mass corruption and suspension of habeas corpus during the civil war
-an orchestrated war for expansion against Spain in which we blew up our own naval vessel killing hundreds
-testing horrible diseases and chemicals on soldiers
- leaving our troops out to die in Vietnam with ordinance designed to fail and dumping agent orange on them without safety protocols in place
-refusing to allow rules of engagement during the wars on terror that would keep our troops safe and equipped for the threats they encountered
Anyone who trusts our government or the media is a fool.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 9:33 am to tide06
quote:
Anyone who trusts our government or the media is a fool.
Agreed! That doesn't mean trust the dudes on Twitter/Truth, Podcasters, or message boards either.
Assume everything is bullshite and try to sift through it for the truth. Think for yourself.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 9:37 am to prplhze2000
Military sabotages Stoner... shocking revelation 
Posted on 3/26/25 at 10:04 am to Tantal
quote:
chrome lining a barrel in a moist jungle environment
That’s one way to say it
Posted on 3/26/25 at 10:07 am to prplhze2000
M14 was the better battle rifle to begin with
Posted on 3/26/25 at 10:08 am to prplhze2000
lost me at ordinance... it's ordnance bro.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 10:08 am to StanSmith
quote:
If you want another case study in incompetence take a look at the issues the US Navy had with torpedoes in the early part of ww2.
The Japanese Navy's greatest adversary in WW2 was the Japanese Army. The US Navy's most implacable foe was the Bureau of Ordnance.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 10:10 am to tide06
quote:
Don't tell me the government is benign or enlightened.
Our entire history is a series of examples of our government doing horrible things and covering it up after the fact:
-congress failing to supply our troops during the revolution and leaving them to starve
-mass corruption and suspension of habeas corpus during the civil war
-an orchestrated war for expansion against Spain in which we blew up our own naval vessel killing hundreds
-testing horrible diseases and chemicals on soldiers
- leaving our troops out to die in Vietnam with ordinance designed to fail and dumping agent orange on them without safety protocols in place
-refusing to allow rules of engagement during the wars on terror that would keep our troops safe and equipped for the threats they encountered
Anyone who trusts our government or the media is a fool.
Yep. And there are people that want the government to be involved in administering every aspect of life
Posted on 3/26/25 at 10:20 am to tide06
quote:
Don't tell me the government is benign or enlightened.
Our entire history is a series of examples of our government doing horrible things and covering it up after the fact:
-congress failing to supply our troops during the revolution and leaving them to starve
-mass corruption and suspension of habeas corpus during the civil war
-an orchestrated war for expansion against Spain in which we blew up our own naval vessel killing hundreds
-testing horrible diseases and chemicals on soldiers
- leaving our troops out to die in Vietnam with ordinance designed to fail and dumping agent orange on them without safety protocols in place
-refusing to allow rules of engagement during the wars on terror that would keep our troops safe and equipped for the threats they encountered
Anyone who trusts our government or the media is a fool.
Agree completely.
Would also add
Waco
Ruby Ridge
Tuskeegee experiment
Posted on 3/26/25 at 10:36 am to choupiquesushi
Autocorrect is a bitch sometimes. Fixed and thanks.
Agree on government but the investigation is one time it worked. Enough people were raising hell they had to do something.
Agree on government but the investigation is one time it worked. Enough people were raising hell they had to do something.
This post was edited on 3/26/25 at 10:39 am
Posted on 3/26/25 at 10:47 am to prplhze2000
Those involved in the sabotage shouldve gotten the death penalty.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 10:50 am to cgrand
quote:
M14 was the better battle rifle to begin with
You're crazy
Posted on 3/26/25 at 10:57 am to Park duck
Yeah. Twice the weight for starters.
Posted on 3/26/25 at 11:08 am to prplhze2000
quote:they were fighting an enemy armed with select fire 30 cal battle rifles with longer barrels, that were easy to field strip, clear & clean. the M14 checked all those boxes with a better round on top of that
Yeah. Twice the weight for starters.
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