re: How many lives is the US economy worth?

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There are 23 million people out of work because of the shutdown. How many lives are their livelihoods worth?

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Not one single life is worth losing over the economy. Maybe your parents, grandparents or at-risk loved ones of any age are expendable...mine are not! This is temporary, once a vaccine is available things will eventually get back to normal. Temporary may be 3 months, 6 months or 2 years. If it is not temporary, then none of this matters anyway. I believe and hope this starts pushing people more towards a life of self sufficiency where you create what you need from resources available to you and less reliance on an economy that creates money to go buy what you need. The biggest problem for all of this planet is consumerism, materialism and what people tend to believe they "need". People of this world need to learn how to be happy if you have food, water and shelter and the pure enjoyment of providing them for yourself. Time to get back to the basics and learn how to enjoy them.

This is a simple fix. Open it back up and until more people die from COVID than from medical malpractice (250k plus each year), then we keep it up. Until then, sending a sick person to a hospital is pretty much sending them to their death.

Why can't we make this a voluntary stay at home order?

You can also have your at risk or high risk people stay at home voluntarily. There is 0 reason to force healthy and young people to stay at home and let them lose their livelihoods.

Just one life. If we can save just one life...

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Just one life. If we can save just one life...

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Karen thanks you for your service.

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That didn’t take long for you to politicize.

Yet again, another poster who sees everything through a myopic political lens.

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It's a worthy question sans any political influence. It's also a question simple minds refuse to consider.

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MSM & government will kill the country to save the people.

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The people are the country above all else! The preamble of the constitution begins with "We the people of the United States" and I will refresh your memory from the closing line of a little address that occurred in Gettysburg..."and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." - Good Ole Abe

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When was the last time the federal or state government did something right?

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Not all are perfect, we are human after all, but it does get some things right when we have the right people in place.

Social Security payments help 51 million Americans.
College loan programs help millions who might otherwise not be able to afford higher education.
U.S. Postal Service get's our mail to us
Social Security disability provides benefits if you become too disabled to work.
Medicare provides government health care for seniors.
Food stamps protect families facing hardship by helping them buy the food they need for good health.
OSHA regulations and inspections protect America’s workforce by limiting exposure to toxic chemicals.
The federal minimum wage law makes sure every covered worker gets paid a basic wage.
The Family and Medical Leave Act provides the right to take time off from work to care for a sick child or parent without losing your job.
The Department of the Interior protects our national parks for the enjoyment of all Americans.(supposed to)
Bank regulations limit your loss to $50 if someone steals money from your account with your ATM card.
Copyright and patent laws protect an invention or creative work from being stolen.
Child-resistant packaging rules reduce poisonings from medicine and household cleaners.
Public education is available to every child.
Inspection of meat, dairy and food protects against contamination and disease.
Truth in Lending laws discourage rip-offs by credit card companies.
School lunch regulations mandate nutritious meals.
Enforcement of the federal Clean Air Act guarantees commitment toward providing safer
air to breathe.
Federal dams provide electrical power, flood control and irrigation.
Federal deposit insurance protects bank accounts.
Construction and maintenance of interstate highways link the country.
The government provides assistance to artists and musicians to help develop and preserve
American culture.
Military doctors eliminated disease like typhoid and yellow fever.
The U.S. Weather Service provides storm and hurricane warnings.
Federal law prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of age, race, gender, color, national origin, religion, childbirth or disability.
The Federal Housing Authority helps Americans become homeowners.
Consulates and embassies help U.S. citizens traveling abroad.
FEMA provides support for victims of hurricanes, floods or other disasters.
The National Park Service maintains several thousand miles of trail for park visitors.
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers helps maintain the nation’s ports, harbors and
navigation channels.
Veterans receive education assistance through the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs’ GI Bill.
Each year, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approves new medicines.
The Library of Congress is the largest library in the world with millions of books, recordings, photographs, maps and manuscripts in its collections, which are made available to the public.
Public water systems provide safe drinking water based on standards set by the EPA.(mostly)
The Transportation Security Administration monitors the 39 billion tons of cargo that are
transported annually by passenger and freight carriers.
Thanks to the Federal Aviation Administration the United States’ air traffic control
system is the safest in the world.
Universities receive 60 percent of all research funding from federal agencies.
The Small Business Administration helps Americans start, grow and build businesses.
The Americans with Disabilities Act guarantees equal opportunity for people with disabilities in public accommodations, employment, transportation, state and local government services and telecommunications.
Veterans Affairs’ facilities treat millions of Americans each year.
Customs and Border Patrol agents protect our borders every day.
Scientists at the National Institutes of Health sequenced the human genome, which set a new course for developing ways to diagnose and treat diseases like cancer, Parkinson's Disease and Alzheimer's Disease.
Labor laws guarantee you cannot be prematurely replaced if you strike over unfair labor practices.
The National Cancer Institute has made many discoveries in the treatment of the disease.

Are these things perfect? No. Can they be abused? Yes. We all use some everyday and neglect to appreciate how our lives are better because of them, but when one of these is there because you are the one in need...that is when you learn how to be grateful.

Don't do the facebook but Cool retort Bubba

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Yes they will...if they sit on their arse and do nothing! You are just too pre-programmed to realize the amazing alternatives. No one "needs" a $40k truck, a $30k boat, a $20k motorcycle or a $300k+ house. These are all luxuries that people think they need so their empty, shitty lives can feel fulfilled. Grab the wife and kids if you have them and get to work growing food and raising livestock. If you live where you can't then move to where you can...lot's of wide open space in the U.S., they are just not all near a drive-thru or a shopping mall. This is working for what you have! Punching a time clock and going to work in office sometimes 60+ hours a week is working for you or your family...it is a slow death to the human spirit. Even if you own your own business you are not working for yourself...you are working for money to give to Cadillac, Harley Davidson, Amazon, etc. I get it...we have different philosophies on what is important in life, but if people would get off their arse and really do it themselves, when times like these come around everyone will be just fine.

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You are still exhibiting a naive, simplistic idea of how an economy works that totally overlooks supply, demand, and market economics.

Let’s use your example. So Joe decides he ‘just wants to be free’ and decides to stop paying the note on his $45k truck because his wife’s Prius is a better choice (better gas mileage!). He also cancels any extravagances (Netflix, Hulu, cell phones, internet, cable) and eliminates his family’s entertainment budget (no eating out, no movies, no vacations). Joe an his wife also decide they are going to grow all of their own food. Yay, Joe and Judy are living their most full lives. Groovy baby.

Now let’s assume that millions of families in your ideal granola world all do the same thing at the same time....

The problem with all of that is that Mike who sells cars now has a shite ton of cars being repoed which fills up his used car lot but since everyone is trying to find their true purpose in life there are no buyers. The market is saturated with used $45k trucks that Mike cannot sell. Every one is sold at a loss. But that’s just the beginning...

GM and Ford (who employ a shite ton of people) then have to compete with a market flooded with late model trucks that their dealer Mike is forced to fire sale because There are millions of Joes tat are sure they have cracked the code on the secret to a fulfilled life. The manufacturers are forced to layoff workers and the people that earn a living for their family making cars and trucks are fricked. Net result= more unemployment.

Next, since there are fewer cars and trucks the oil and gas industry has to lay off 50% of their workforce.Also, insurers eliminate 50% of their workforce because the world is full of Joe and Judys who only have 1 car households. Great!

So since Joe and Judy are growing food for themselves (really poorly for the first few years since they don’t know what they are doing) the grocery stores lay off 50% of their employees and have to close the less profitable stores in remote areas where they cannot turn a profit. Net= Decreased food security in suburban areas, increased unemployment in suburban areas, and an increase in the need for government intervention in combatting hunger.

Oh, but we’re not done yet. Joe and Judy can not afford health insurance since they only make $500 per month selling wind chimes on the side of the highway so they (and their 3 kids) need government supported healthcare which is mandated by law. They have all the rhubarb they could ever want but their oldest son (poor little asthmatic Bobby) needs constant monitoring and over $400 per month in medication. But the taxpayer will pay for it, right? Unfortunately, with the new movement of families just moving to a simpler life (groovy) means that there are far fewer taxpayers. In fact, we need to start taxing the productive, working people at much higher rates but hey, frick those people right?

Anyway, you can keep going with this but I am getting bored. The only way your idealist vision works is if there are people that make up for your lack of productivity. There a no free lunches when economies collapse. Everyone starves.

So, in short, frick your stupid idealist thinking. It only works when there are few freeloaders looking to ‘find themselves and live their truest life’. When the whole country does it that’s a societal collapse.