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Started By
Message
2
Posted on 12/18/16 at 6:55 pm to PapaPogey
Honestly. Field experience is where you have to start. No one wants to hire you if you don't know how to build or visualize the work you are estimating. Takeoff is the easy part. But there is more steps involved in the work that you have to be aware of
ETA: you are effectively looking at the job and building it out in your head and on paper in a few days or weeks.
ETA: you are effectively looking at the job and building it out in your head and on paper in a few days or weeks.
This post was edited on 12/18/16 at 7:02 pm
Posted on 12/18/16 at 6:56 pm to TrebleHook
quote:
You probably have a good shot. Estimating is pretty much just throwing darts at a dart board anyway
So wrong. Quick way to lose your company money and get your arse fired.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 6:58 pm to Puck82
I haven't been fired yet
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:03 pm to TrebleHook
quote:
You probably have a good shot. Estimating is pretty much just throwing darts at a dart board anyway
And this is how the work starts to get sketchy. I've seen too many contractors underbid a contract, realize they fricked up, and start cutting corners at every chance. If you're bidding on any type of government funded project, with fairly strict big item quantities, you can put a company out of business.
And it's happens on private contracts too. I've heard Wal-Mart owner reps laugh at how many contractors they've put out of business. I saw a site development contractor at the Lafayette Costco go out of pocket for several trucks of lime, and had months of delays, trying to get the foundation subgrade stable enough to pos
pass a proof full, and begin their overexcavation. After 6 months, they still couldn't dry it out enough to stabilize. But that's what happens when you build in an old rice farm. If job conditions aren't as expected, a bad bid can really damage a company.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:13 pm to PapaPogey
I am sort of in the same boat, without stealing from this, I will piggy back off of it.
29 years old, except I have no degree, O&G "sales" for the past 6 years with field work before that. Just signed up for the
Associates in Construction Management program at the local community college.
Where do I start getting my feet wet? Do I go sling a hammer while I am completing this 2 year program? Im up for anything...
29 years old, except I have no degree, O&G "sales" for the past 6 years with field work before that. Just signed up for the
Associates in Construction Management program at the local community college.
Where do I start getting my feet wet? Do I go sling a hammer while I am completing this 2 year program? Im up for anything...
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:30 pm to Polar Pop
quote:
Where do I start getting my feet wet?
I don't know if it's the right way, but this is what I'm doing. I lost my job last may. Tried to find something in that field and gave up after 4 months. It was semi construction related so I called up a friend that is an electrical contractor. I'm also doing th post baccalaureate construction management program lsu offers. I'm a little older than you, and it sucks starting over.
Maybe find a local contractor that will work with you. Most need help right now with all the flood work.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 8:31 pm to Polar Pop
quote:
Where do I start getting my feet wet? Do I go sling a hammer while I am completing this 2 year program? Im up for anything...
If you actually did this you would have more field experience than 90% of Project Managers and Estimators. I can count one one hand the ones I know that can actually drive a nail. And I'm one of them.
Posted on 12/18/16 at 9:09 pm to Martini
I agree with another poster that stated you need to know how to build it before you can estimate it properly. I get so pissed off when we lose a bid to a competitor who obviously screwed up there bid but still took the job.
Try to get on with:
Cajun
Womack
Buquet LeBlanc
Lemoine
Turner
Woodward
Gibbs
Performance
MMR
Bernhard/MCC
Group
James
Boh
Any of these big companies will give you the experience you need. I personally got my start at Cajun and it was the best stepping stone I could have ever hoped for. Good luck!
Try to get on with:
Cajun
Womack
Buquet LeBlanc
Lemoine
Turner
Woodward
Gibbs
Performance
MMR
Bernhard/MCC
Group
James
Boh
Any of these big companies will give you the experience you need. I personally got my start at Cajun and it was the best stepping stone I could have ever hoped for. Good luck!
Posted on 12/18/16 at 9:13 pm to ClubTiger
(no message)
This post was edited on 12/18/16 at 9:53 pm
Posted on 12/19/16 at 12:19 am to k wilk
My years of experience selling to GCs disagrees with the idea that you can't estimate if you don't know how it's built from field experience.
I sell to big firms like Balfour Beatty, Brasfield & Gorrie, Archer Western, Gilbane and about 10 others in the National Top 200 GCs. Every one of these firms is loaded with fresh out of college estimators. The Atlanta offices are filled with Auburn, Clemson, and GT graduates. It is the lowest tier project team position at every company. It is the starting position for anyone without field or management experience. It is a stepping stone to assistant PM. Project Manager is the next promotion. Senior Project Manager follows that. Division Manager is next. Regional Manager or VP of a division is next after that. That is usually about a 15-20 year journey to get from new hire estimator to VP or a Division manager. Of course there are exceptions.
Here is the kicker for the OP. I don't know what region of the country you are in but in the big construction markets around the South, all of the new hire estimators have usually interned at the company they get hired by. Auburn, Clemson, Florida, GT and even Kennesaw State and Georgia Southern to lesser degrees have construction management programs. There is no shortage of students to intern and fill the positions after graduation. And I can tell you they hire more than they actually need to estimate projects because that is not the end game for them. These kids are starting in estimating but the GC is really hiring future PMs. A big GC in a market will only have about 1 or 2 career estimators while they might have 8-10 estimators at any given time. The career estimators are titled Senior Estimators. They supervise the young ones who will eventually be PMs and make sure they 1) don't screw bids up and 2) are proficient enough to promote.
Without any previous intern experience, you will probably have to go after it a little harder. Not having a degree in CM doesn't help. I think you said that you only have some classes in CM. It really comes down to can you sell yourself without having certain qualifications that the GCs generally hire on? If you have a degree of any kind it should not be to hard if you interview with a lot of firms. You don't need field experience for that entry level job. Hell, the people promoted to Asst PM don't have it either. Once they get that promotion, they are basically being coached for a couple years or more on how to run their own job. They sit silently in meetings and listen and learn. Can't tell you how many times over 18 years of job site meetings I have seen 23-26 year old Asst PMs sit in our team meetings and not say a word. If you really want this, I think you can get it but you have to be impressive in an interview.
I sell to big firms like Balfour Beatty, Brasfield & Gorrie, Archer Western, Gilbane and about 10 others in the National Top 200 GCs. Every one of these firms is loaded with fresh out of college estimators. The Atlanta offices are filled with Auburn, Clemson, and GT graduates. It is the lowest tier project team position at every company. It is the starting position for anyone without field or management experience. It is a stepping stone to assistant PM. Project Manager is the next promotion. Senior Project Manager follows that. Division Manager is next. Regional Manager or VP of a division is next after that. That is usually about a 15-20 year journey to get from new hire estimator to VP or a Division manager. Of course there are exceptions.
Here is the kicker for the OP. I don't know what region of the country you are in but in the big construction markets around the South, all of the new hire estimators have usually interned at the company they get hired by. Auburn, Clemson, Florida, GT and even Kennesaw State and Georgia Southern to lesser degrees have construction management programs. There is no shortage of students to intern and fill the positions after graduation. And I can tell you they hire more than they actually need to estimate projects because that is not the end game for them. These kids are starting in estimating but the GC is really hiring future PMs. A big GC in a market will only have about 1 or 2 career estimators while they might have 8-10 estimators at any given time. The career estimators are titled Senior Estimators. They supervise the young ones who will eventually be PMs and make sure they 1) don't screw bids up and 2) are proficient enough to promote.
Without any previous intern experience, you will probably have to go after it a little harder. Not having a degree in CM doesn't help. I think you said that you only have some classes in CM. It really comes down to can you sell yourself without having certain qualifications that the GCs generally hire on? If you have a degree of any kind it should not be to hard if you interview with a lot of firms. You don't need field experience for that entry level job. Hell, the people promoted to Asst PM don't have it either. Once they get that promotion, they are basically being coached for a couple years or more on how to run their own job. They sit silently in meetings and listen and learn. Can't tell you how many times over 18 years of job site meetings I have seen 23-26 year old Asst PMs sit in our team meetings and not say a word. If you really want this, I think you can get it but you have to be impressive in an interview.
Posted on 12/19/16 at 6:20 am to Dick Leverage
^^ this guy knows what's up. Especially with no field experience you'll basically be seen and not heard from for a couple years. You essentially are being paid to learn.
It is kind of understood amongst the LSU CM program that, although getting the degree is important, what you learn in school is not. Theses companies take you in and teach you how they want things done.
Now I'm sure if you have a better grasp of things out of school, that would mean quicker promotions. However, I'm graduating this spring from LSU and the there are plenty of kids that have never even seen a site first hand. They are still getting jobs though, just not with the larger companies
It is kind of understood amongst the LSU CM program that, although getting the degree is important, what you learn in school is not. Theses companies take you in and teach you how they want things done.
Now I'm sure if you have a better grasp of things out of school, that would mean quicker promotions. However, I'm graduating this spring from LSU and the there are plenty of kids that have never even seen a site first hand. They are still getting jobs though, just not with the larger companies
This post was edited on 12/19/16 at 6:22 am
Posted on 12/19/16 at 6:23 am to Dick Leverage
quote:
Dick Leverage
No offense but having worked in estimating for one of the companies you mentioned you're wrong (at least from my experience)
Green new hires may get thrown on a bid but that's a placeholder position until they go out to the field. Anyone can get sub prices, that's not estimating. After reading that it's clear you're talking about the vertical/commercial divisions of this companies-which I don't know about so you may be right. I'll also say at least one of those companies requires an engineering degree for 90% of their entry level jobs.
OP you aren't going to go straight into estimating, at least not with a reputable company. You're going to have to work your way up. As others have said become familiar with P6, but most of estimators work is done through HeavyBid.
Also just remember if you're ever an estimator you don't ever win, you're really just a scapegoat.
Posted on 12/19/16 at 7:11 am to Muice
Not disputing you because some companies vary in their qualification preferences. The only one I listed that has a regional office in Atlanta that might have an engineering requirement is Archer Westen. They mainly do Government projects like WTPs and WRFs and DOT in this market.
I could walk into any of the others this morning and chat with at least 8 estimators who have been out of school for only 2 years or less and a couple of interns. Now, they may be a placeholder but that goes in line with what I said about structure and the position they are expected to move into eventually. Many of my other clients (Winter, Batson-Cook, JE Dunn, Skanska, Turner, etc.) are modeled the same way.
At none of these companies does one work their way "up" to estimator unless you mean to career estimator with a Senior title.
I could walk into any of the others this morning and chat with at least 8 estimators who have been out of school for only 2 years or less and a couple of interns. Now, they may be a placeholder but that goes in line with what I said about structure and the position they are expected to move into eventually. Many of my other clients (Winter, Batson-Cook, JE Dunn, Skanska, Turner, etc.) are modeled the same way.
At none of these companies does one work their way "up" to estimator unless you mean to career estimator with a Senior title.
Posted on 12/19/16 at 7:31 am to PapaPogey
Move to Dallas. Start as an APM (everyone needs somebody.
If you are not a complete dirtbag, you'll have pm opportunities in 2 yrs.
If you are not a complete dirtbag, you'll have pm opportunities in 2 yrs.
Posted on 12/19/16 at 8:22 am to PapaPogey
I think project engineer or coordinator is your best bet, not hard to find a job if you have a degree in CM. Hell I had like 5 job offers for that position when I graduated in CM last fall
Posted on 12/19/16 at 9:28 am to Dick Leverage
quote:
I sell to big firms like Balfour Beatty, Brasfield & Gorrie, Archer Western, Gilbane and about 10 others in the National Top 200 GCs
You're right and wrong. These larger companies do put people in "estimating" positions or "field engineer" positions, but you are a glorified secretary, laborer, runner.
Posted on 12/19/16 at 9:34 am to SouthboundTiger
Thanks I'll check it out. Sucks making a career change but I'm ready just need to find someone to give me a chance and give me some training. 
ETA: PF told me to get with him in February and he might have something for me
ETA: PF told me to get with him in February and he might have something for me
This post was edited on 12/19/16 at 9:35 am
Posted on 12/19/16 at 9:42 am to PapaPogey
I'm going to piggy back on Dick Leverage's post.
I took a job at a top 200 GC straight out of civil engineering at Auburn in estimating. I had no clue what I was doing. I grew up around highway and residential construction but commercial and industrial are a whole nother game. GCs are practically begging people to come work for them.
I am now an assistant project manager and will either be getting promoted next year to PM or will be jumping to another company for more money and to be a PM. I spent less than a year in estimating before jumping out into the field as an on-site PM. Was there for less than a year before another promotion to APM.
I say all of that to say if you want to work in commercial construction start applying everywhere for every entry level spot and you will get hired on and taught everything you need to know.
I took a job at a top 200 GC straight out of civil engineering at Auburn in estimating. I had no clue what I was doing. I grew up around highway and residential construction but commercial and industrial are a whole nother game. GCs are practically begging people to come work for them.
I am now an assistant project manager and will either be getting promoted next year to PM or will be jumping to another company for more money and to be a PM. I spent less than a year in estimating before jumping out into the field as an on-site PM. Was there for less than a year before another promotion to APM.
I say all of that to say if you want to work in commercial construction start applying everywhere for every entry level spot and you will get hired on and taught everything you need to know.
Posted on 12/19/16 at 10:59 am to JamalSanders
quote:
start applying everywhere for every entry level spo
Do you have any examples of certain entry level, ground floor positions/titles to look for?
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