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How can European cars be so nice while at the same time require so much maintenance?
Posted on 10/6/19 at 10:13 am
Posted on 10/6/19 at 10:13 am
and repair
Closer tolerances? More plastic?
I sat it a new Audi recently and the interior was exceptional. The lines, stance, etc. were great. And more than likely it would be a money pit to own.
Is there a current production European car that approaches Japanese reliability?
Closer tolerances? More plastic?
I sat it a new Audi recently and the interior was exceptional. The lines, stance, etc. were great. And more than likely it would be a money pit to own.
Is there a current production European car that approaches Japanese reliability?
This post was edited on 10/6/19 at 10:15 am
Posted on 10/6/19 at 10:22 am to weagle99
All of the above. I believe they have figured out how to make them just last through a 3 year lease so you lease another one. Cutting edge handling and technology comes at a price.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 10:24 am to weagle99
They're not always trouble. The worst issues, IMO, arise with new technology or mandates.
For instance... If BMW could produce simple straight sixes and people would buy cars without electronically controlled everything, those cars would be rock solid. You could probably drive one ten years with no problems. New regulations and standards, combined with too much technology in a car make for issues.
For instance... If BMW could produce simple straight sixes and people would buy cars without electronically controlled everything, those cars would be rock solid. You could probably drive one ten years with no problems. New regulations and standards, combined with too much technology in a car make for issues.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 10:27 am to weagle99
Super and hyper cars require expert maintenance to make sure they can operate as advertised. That expert maintenance comes at a price.
See the maintenance schedule for Bugatti’s cars.
See the maintenance schedule for Bugatti’s cars.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 10:31 am to weagle99
I have 4 with 2 of them 13 years old and have very little issues with any of them. I make sure they have regular maintenance and keep them in good shape and they will perform for many more years. The 2 older ones have over 200k miles on them.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 10:38 am to GetBackToWork
quote:
If BMW could produce simple straight sixes and people would buy cars without electronically controlled everything, those cars would be rock solid. You could probably drive one ten years with no problems.
I have one. Ten years old, just some leaky bits. Inline 6, no turbo, manual transmission 5 series. I have 8 more years until I’m allowed in Cruising the Coast.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 10:38 am to weagle99
They're like shallow women. Might be nice to look at, lust over, but expensive to have.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 10:39 am to Gaston
Those BMW straight six engines were just so beautifully smooth.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 10:51 am to weagle99
They're not trying to build something that will last. They could if they wanted to.
The Germans thrive on quality designs and materials. GM, Toyota, etc. will produce interesting design concepts from time to time, and then half-arse them with thin sheet metal and plastic when it comes to production.
The women who make purchasing decisions now don't know why a BMW looks so much better than a Pontiac (particularly up close and in person), but they know it does.
That said, there's some really bad stuff underneath the skin of German cars. My favorite example: the BMW X3 has a little computer-controlled flap in the muffler that makes it quiet most of the time but loud when it "should" be. If you're spending money on that, and you're not independently wealthy, that's a mistake.
Even if you're just super turned-on by analog clocks and British accents and whatnot, get an Acura.
The Germans thrive on quality designs and materials. GM, Toyota, etc. will produce interesting design concepts from time to time, and then half-arse them with thin sheet metal and plastic when it comes to production.
The women who make purchasing decisions now don't know why a BMW looks so much better than a Pontiac (particularly up close and in person), but they know it does.
That said, there's some really bad stuff underneath the skin of German cars. My favorite example: the BMW X3 has a little computer-controlled flap in the muffler that makes it quiet most of the time but loud when it "should" be. If you're spending money on that, and you're not independently wealthy, that's a mistake.
Even if you're just super turned-on by analog clocks and British accents and whatnot, get an Acura.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 10:55 am to USMEagles
quote:
get an Acura.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 10:58 am to weagle99
The Germans in particular intentionally over-engineer everything. It’s a concept called planned obsolescence.
Case in point, most VAG and Mercedes products have a relay feature that automatically rolls down the window a quarter of an inch or so when you open the door, then rolls it back up when you close it.
They do this to supposedly save the weatherstrip...but what’s more expensive, weatherstrip or a window motor?
Case in point, most VAG and Mercedes products have a relay feature that automatically rolls down the window a quarter of an inch or so when you open the door, then rolls it back up when you close it.
They do this to supposedly save the weatherstrip...but what’s more expensive, weatherstrip or a window motor?
Posted on 10/6/19 at 11:00 am to CaptainsWafer
quote:
See the maintenance schedule for Bugatti’s cars.
I checked out the maintenance schedule for the Bugatti Veyron and it is insanely priced.
Tires for the car are $30k for a set and every 4th set requires you get new wheels at $120K. Annual maintenance averages $30K with the oil change costing $20K alone.
Stupid numbers. Oh, and if you live in California and want one, be prepared to plunk down $320K to get it compliant with their auto restriction laws.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 11:07 am to weagle99
A lot of the maintenance requirements are added to make money for the dealership. DO you think the Germans can not do what the Japanese do? Make quality vehicles that last a long time and don't require as much maintenance?
I spent putting together and installing "Factory Scheduled Maintenance" working with OEMs and dealers. Generally what the domestic and Asian OEMS recommended was straight and you had the option of more intensive depending on type of use and conditions, etc. A few years ago when the BG Flush craze was in full bore Toyota whet to some of their dealers who were abusing their customers and told them to either remove the BG machines from the shop or the Toyota sign from the front of the building. Make up your mind if you want to be a Toyota dealer.
But the German's pile on the maintenance and it's not just the factory, it's their dealers. A good friend bought a high end German made SUV so I went with her to help with the deal. Sitting in the F&I office we were told that she should really buy their maintenance contract because this particular vehicle a trans service every 30,000 miles! I knew better so I just said I'd be right back I wanted to get something out of my truck. SO I sat in the lot, called THEIR service department and was told that it was a 60,000 trans service from the factory and then I asked about what was required at 10, 20, 30000. Basically LOF, tire rotate and air filter. Plus a lot of fluff and checks.
The maintenance contract this guy was pushing was good until 30,000 miles for $1895. I consider that fraud, told him that and found the General Manager and told him that.
Lexus can build a very high quality vehicles that is simple to maintain.
I spent putting together and installing "Factory Scheduled Maintenance" working with OEMs and dealers. Generally what the domestic and Asian OEMS recommended was straight and you had the option of more intensive depending on type of use and conditions, etc. A few years ago when the BG Flush craze was in full bore Toyota whet to some of their dealers who were abusing their customers and told them to either remove the BG machines from the shop or the Toyota sign from the front of the building. Make up your mind if you want to be a Toyota dealer.
But the German's pile on the maintenance and it's not just the factory, it's their dealers. A good friend bought a high end German made SUV so I went with her to help with the deal. Sitting in the F&I office we were told that she should really buy their maintenance contract because this particular vehicle a trans service every 30,000 miles! I knew better so I just said I'd be right back I wanted to get something out of my truck. SO I sat in the lot, called THEIR service department and was told that it was a 60,000 trans service from the factory and then I asked about what was required at 10, 20, 30000. Basically LOF, tire rotate and air filter. Plus a lot of fluff and checks.
The maintenance contract this guy was pushing was good until 30,000 miles for $1895. I consider that fraud, told him that and found the General Manager and told him that.
Lexus can build a very high quality vehicles that is simple to maintain.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 11:15 am to weagle99
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/21/20 at 9:00 am
Posted on 10/6/19 at 11:39 am to cajuncarguy
Interesting read. Another debacle from what I heard was the "long life" engine oil. Sure, synthetic oils last last longer. When several European brands were doing service-included for 3 years or so, they lengthened the oil life and adjusted the monitors in the cars. Service techs told me the engines probably would not last like prior generations, aside from other new technology issues, as the oil was being pushed past a good service point. Most cars were leased, so it didn't really matter.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 2:04 pm to GetBackToWork
quote:
New regulations and standards, combined with too much technology in a car make for issues.
Power windows and door locks have been around awhile. BMW still has not figured that shite out. They are notorious for power window failures.
Posted on 10/6/19 at 2:06 pm to weagle99
Bought my wife a Volvo...man that was a mistake
Posted on 10/6/19 at 2:10 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Those BMW straight six engines were just so beautifully smooth.
It has nothing to do with BWM per se it is the fact that I6 engines by their design have both primary and secondary balance. The I6 is the most compact engine layout that has both. I12s are better but your hood would have to be long enough to land plans on.
Euro cars, for the most part, require no more maintenance than say a Japanese car with the same performance characteristics. Euro engines, for example, tend to have more specific power causes them to require more exacting maintenance schedules.
Euro cars are more reliable relative to Japanese brands than in the past. Audi and BMW both top Honda in reliability as off late (just reference CR). The biggest issue with Euro brands is they are constantly pushing the boundaries of great drivers cars they do it across their entire lines. This level of innovation always brings with it unexpected issues down the line.
If one wants reliability and dependability first then by a Lexus/Toyota but if you prefer more of a driver's car you look to BMW/Audi/Mercedes/VW/Porsche.
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