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Message
re: Engineering Shortage : Myth or Fact
Posted on 7/20/15 at 6:18 am to Dooshay
Posted on 7/20/15 at 6:18 am to Dooshay
The hiring process is shallow.
I worked an internship in college where a contracted HR person called us on the phone and gave us a basic quiz from the engineer who opened the position. I ended up getting the job and asked him statistics about the quiz and he said the people with the highest GPAs were generally scoring the lowest with a few exceptions.
He was also someone who spent 6.5 years in college getting his degree because he partied too much and didn't really pay attention but he was an unbelievable engineer and knew generators and electrical distribution gear like no one else.
There isn't always a correlation between grades in school and how good of an engineer someone can be. I'd say that case is rare actually. Like I said, companies are shallow when hiring because GPA is the easiest filtering tool, but there are also plenty of companies out there hiring who don't care about GPA.
I worked an internship in college where a contracted HR person called us on the phone and gave us a basic quiz from the engineer who opened the position. I ended up getting the job and asked him statistics about the quiz and he said the people with the highest GPAs were generally scoring the lowest with a few exceptions.
He was also someone who spent 6.5 years in college getting his degree because he partied too much and didn't really pay attention but he was an unbelievable engineer and knew generators and electrical distribution gear like no one else.
There isn't always a correlation between grades in school and how good of an engineer someone can be. I'd say that case is rare actually. Like I said, companies are shallow when hiring because GPA is the easiest filtering tool, but there are also plenty of companies out there hiring who don't care about GPA.
1
Posted on 7/20/15 at 6:40 am to volod
quote:
So I assume my odds are still slim if I went and got IE degree.
But generally speaking what about biomedical, nanosystems, and Industrial.
You left Lousiana Tech to pursue another degree in one of the above at another school, especially Southern U? You're an idiot that has no bidness being an engineer if you ask these kind of questions at this point in the game. Maybe I'll be an engineer... no, wait, I think I wanna be a doctor- maybe a vet... oh, I dunno, lemme ask the OT board what I should be.
Posted on 7/20/15 at 6:44 am to volod
Depends on the discipline.
PETE: oversaturated due to oil price tankage
ME: was a shortage but now sees some PETE's moving in
EE: shortage
Civil: maybe slight shortage
nuclear: shortage
environmental: mild shortage
software: regional shortages and oversupplies. Depends on where you are (Louisiana supposedly has a shortage, but still pays dog shite)
chemical: shortage (and getting more so)
bio: I really don't know. Everyone I know who got this degree used it for medical school or nursing school and didn't really use it for engineering.
Industrial: regional as well. Louisiana doesn't hire a ton of industrial engineers to my knowledge.
Also, the market is way better for those with bachelors rather than graduate degrees as most engineering firms don't want to pay extra for masters degree holders when they expect to be able to pay a bachelor's degree holder less for the same job. They also expect that you will want to do research.
The biggest contributor to the "shortage" is HR departments demanding a minimum of 5 years relevant experience for "entry" level positions. This simply isn't attainable for the vast majority of college graduates. It's like trying to climb a ladder when the first rung is 10' above you. The largest companies only hire those that graduated near the tops of their classes, not realizing that great students often don't make great engineers. They tend to lack people skills and are better suited for research (more for graduate degree holders). Better engineers are usually the B average students as they tend to have better social skills, but those 4.0 grads get all of the jobs at the top. Then, those companies are in a bind 2 years later when they leave for greener pastures and the process starts anew.
HR departments are really screwing up this industry (and all others) and greatly distorting the job market.
PETE: oversaturated due to oil price tankage
ME: was a shortage but now sees some PETE's moving in
EE: shortage
Civil: maybe slight shortage
nuclear: shortage
environmental: mild shortage
software: regional shortages and oversupplies. Depends on where you are (Louisiana supposedly has a shortage, but still pays dog shite)
chemical: shortage (and getting more so)
bio: I really don't know. Everyone I know who got this degree used it for medical school or nursing school and didn't really use it for engineering.
Industrial: regional as well. Louisiana doesn't hire a ton of industrial engineers to my knowledge.
Also, the market is way better for those with bachelors rather than graduate degrees as most engineering firms don't want to pay extra for masters degree holders when they expect to be able to pay a bachelor's degree holder less for the same job. They also expect that you will want to do research.
The biggest contributor to the "shortage" is HR departments demanding a minimum of 5 years relevant experience for "entry" level positions. This simply isn't attainable for the vast majority of college graduates. It's like trying to climb a ladder when the first rung is 10' above you. The largest companies only hire those that graduated near the tops of their classes, not realizing that great students often don't make great engineers. They tend to lack people skills and are better suited for research (more for graduate degree holders). Better engineers are usually the B average students as they tend to have better social skills, but those 4.0 grads get all of the jobs at the top. Then, those companies are in a bind 2 years later when they leave for greener pastures and the process starts anew.
HR departments are really screwing up this industry (and all others) and greatly distorting the job market.
This post was edited on 7/20/15 at 6:53 am
Posted on 7/20/15 at 6:50 am to SabiDojo
quote:
Southern Fan
Uh yeah we're full sorry
Posted on 7/20/15 at 6:56 am to volod
I have found it difficult to find quality talent. I look for well rounded grads that display social skills as well as technical. The bulk of my staff are aTm grads (and are fantastic) with some LSU Masters grads (also fantastic). I've interviewed many and the worst typically come from Texas Tech......sloppy/weird frickers.
This is civil engineering and talent is slim......
This is civil engineering and talent is slim......
Posted on 7/20/15 at 6:57 am to volod
quote:
Laplacian techniques
Does this involve driving in reverse down Airline Highway while simultaneously drinking from 2 different daquiris while on the way to a high school football game?
This post was edited on 7/20/15 at 7:03 am
Posted on 7/20/15 at 7:08 am to brodeo
Your last two posts hit both the nail heads I was coming to hammer.
Scary thought for you.
Scary thought for you.
Posted on 7/20/15 at 7:12 am to soccerfüt
I've found that most of the people who kicked my arse in school are pretty weak on the job, at least in my field. There's a lot of face to face with customers and they struggle big time with making quick decisions and being able to defend them. From what I gather that's a common problem across all disciplines and experience ranges.
So OP, focus on your social and leadership abilities. The technical stuff is easy.
So OP, focus on your social and leadership abilities. The technical stuff is easy.
Posted on 7/20/15 at 7:14 am to volod
A lot of people think that the STEM shortage is a myth perpetuated by companies so that it is easier for them to hire H1-B Visa foreign workers at lower salaries.
Also, a complaint out there is that a lot of STEM graduates aren't able to essentially think for themselves. They may be good at the technical stuff, but they suck at communication and writing.
Also, a complaint out there is that a lot of STEM graduates aren't able to essentially think for themselves. They may be good at the technical stuff, but they suck at communication and writing.
This post was edited on 7/20/15 at 7:16 am
Posted on 7/20/15 at 11:01 am to volod
there are two factors at work(really just one w/ 2 facets), the market and the supply.
Lots of building, tech investment, military-spending means a good market for civil,mechanical, aero-EE-Comp-design engineers, other engineering fields(nuclear-chemical) typically fluctuate less.
Of course companys who hire engineers want more(and will claim shortage) so they can have a better hiring candidate pool and not have to pay so much, just like any other profession.
Since there is a fair amount of work involved and lazy/not bright students will fail or drop out, the market is typically not over saturated.. it's not always the case though, when I graduated it was the first year McDonnell Douglas ever laid off Engineers, ever, in history. Life is not always what you expect.
Lots of building, tech investment, military-spending means a good market for civil,mechanical, aero-EE-Comp-design engineers, other engineering fields(nuclear-chemical) typically fluctuate less.
Of course companys who hire engineers want more(and will claim shortage) so they can have a better hiring candidate pool and not have to pay so much, just like any other profession.
Since there is a fair amount of work involved and lazy/not bright students will fail or drop out, the market is typically not over saturated.. it's not always the case though, when I graduated it was the first year McDonnell Douglas ever laid off Engineers, ever, in history. Life is not always what you expect.
This post was edited on 7/20/15 at 12:00 pm
Posted on 7/20/15 at 11:04 am to volod
I can't speak for other trades, but I know my dad's plant on the Miss. river has been short on engineers for a while. Consulting keeps sucking them up before they get an offer. He's an ME that works mostly with ME and ChE.
I am a structural and from what I have seen the civil/structural market is hot, and will continue to be hot for some time as infrastructure keeps failing, and the population keeps growing. Infrastructure falling down is a great advertisement for more public works money. Not to mention no one wants to do the work that it takes to get a tough degree these days. Yet all you hear about on the news is the poor unemployed liberal arts majors
.
I am a structural and from what I have seen the civil/structural market is hot, and will continue to be hot for some time as infrastructure keeps failing, and the population keeps growing. Infrastructure falling down is a great advertisement for more public works money. Not to mention no one wants to do the work that it takes to get a tough degree these days. Yet all you hear about on the news is the poor unemployed liberal arts majors
.Posted on 7/20/15 at 11:53 am to brodeo
agreed...
A - work for B & C students.
B - Create companies & jobs for A students.
C - Create companies & jobs for A students.
D - work for government
F - work for government
A - work for B & C students.
B - Create companies & jobs for A students.
C - Create companies & jobs for A students.
D - work for government
F - work for government
Posted on 7/20/15 at 12:02 pm to geauxengineering
quote:
A - work for B & C students.
B - Create companies & jobs for A students.
C - Create companies & jobs for A students.
D - work for government
F - work for government
Spot On!!!!
We had one graduate in our Chem-E class who sucked. He wasn't an engineer. He simply tired to memorize the text book. He couldn't problem solve. Welp, only one person our class went to work for the government....
Posted on 7/20/15 at 1:02 pm to volod
quote:
As someone almost finished with a Masters in Engineering, I am curious to know the truth.
Depends on the discipline...there are shortages of certain engineering disciplines. With that being said, get your P.E. and you can always find a job somewhere.
Posted on 7/20/15 at 1:17 pm to NYNolaguy1
From what I've seen ( and I haven't seen much ) the people who are short on engineering are short because they don't want to pay competitively. I got some extremely shitty offers out of school. Know what they all had in common? They were short on engineering. When the guy down the road is offering a career for $80k starting, you can't expect to get a heavy hitter for a temp job with no headroom at $58k.
Posted on 7/20/15 at 1:29 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
How would y'all rank engineering majors by prestige, job placement, salary, etc?
Posted on 7/20/15 at 1:36 pm to SabiDojo
Statistically out of LSU I think average starting salary rank is PE ChemE MechE EE and then idk.
Mechanical is probably the most versatile, Chem will probably make you the most money over your lifetime.
Mechanical is probably the most versatile, Chem will probably make you the most money over your lifetime.
Posted on 7/20/15 at 1:39 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
PE ChemE MechE EE
This is pretty standard. If a school has a nuclear engineering program, that usually takes the top spot. PE can be boom or bust though depending on the current and projected price per barrel.
Posted on 7/20/15 at 1:42 pm to Hammertime
quote:
Employers will always claim there is a shortage.
there isn't a shortage, there is a shortage of employers paying market prices.
There is plenty of talent available, companies just have to pay for it. and they don't want to do this.
We notice this. we can't even get qualified people to apply for positions b.c we pay 25-30% less than our competitors. And everyone knows it.
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