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re: Do you feel race relations would be better if CSA still existed.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:54 am to volod
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:54 am to volod
quote:
think Lincoln was a good president for his time, but even I can see that his political gains were his primary inspiration
You cool with these statements out of Lincoln's mouth. Seriously, Lincoln was a racist piece of shite who only cared about ruling with an iron fist from a powerful expansive federal government.
These words came out his mouth. Read them, Volod, and dwell on them the next time you think of Lincoln and the lies that you know about the Civil War:
quote:
While I was at the hotel to-day, an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing a perfect equality between the negroes and white people. While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it.
I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the black and white races -- that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making VOTERS or jurors of negroes, NOR OF QUALIFYING THEM HOLD OFFICE, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.
And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any of her man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people. As long as blacks continue to live with the whites they constitute a threat to the national life. Family life may also collapse and the increase of mixed breed bastards may some day challenge the supremacy of the white man"
This post was edited on 6/1/17 at 8:56 am
1
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:55 am to volod
quote:CSA Link (the Canadian Standards Association) not only still exists, it's doing good work ensuring products in Canada are safe and appropriate for their intended uses.
Do you feel race relations would be better if CSA still existed.
Possibly Canadian race relations are better because of CSA's existence.
Maybe you'd like to apply for a position there?
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:00 am to volod
quote:
For you military aficionados, another scenario would be how WWI and WWII would be fought. There is a strong likelihood that the South would possibly join AXIS powers or that the US/CSA as we know it would never become a world power. Why do you think a nation which abolished slavery would forego that to support a nation that thrives on it. And I doubt the Allied European powers would want that either.
I don't think the CSA would have jumped on board with the Axis powers. You're assuming that the CSA would view the U.S. as an enemy, and would turn on its historical ally, Great Britain. I don't think the CSA would see another war with the United States as being in its best interest. Such a war would threaten its very existence. And for what? Germany's approval? Nah... just don't see it.
I honestly think the CSA would either sit it out or assist Great Britain with the help of the United States. Perhaps WWII would have bring the U.S. and the CSA closer together.
Whatever the case, I don't see a divided USA/CSA being as effective for the Allies as a united USA. I still think the Allies win, but the cost is much higher and the war is longer.
I also think the CSA would have abolished slavery by the 1940's. The industrial revolution changed everything. I don't see the South holding on to the slavery system any longer than most other modernized nations. most of which had abolished slavery by 1900's. Few third-world nations still held on to slavery past the 1920s. Past a certain point, intellectual, religious, economic, ethical and diplomatic trends compel action on slavery. The CSA would not be immunized to those movements worldwide.
One thing is for sure, though, neither the South nor the U.S. would be better off now with a CSA victory in the Civil War. I think we would be decades behind - culturally, socially, technologically, economically.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:02 am to volod
quote:
For you military aficionados, another scenario would be how WWI and WWII would be fought. There is a strong likelihood that the South would possibly join AXIS powers
Just don't even with this. This is asinine speculation with no basis.
quote:
Why do you think a nation which abolished slavery would forego that to support a nation that thrives on it. And I doubt the Allied European powers would want that either.
You mean like they did with the Soviet fricking Union?
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:02 am to Placebeaux
quote:To be the Man..you have to beat the White Man
The war on white people is real.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:02 am to Breesus
quote:
I've said this before, but it infuriates me when some mouth breathing kunt from the north east or California tries to preach to me or teach me about race relations.
quote:
I've said this before, but it infuriates me when some mouth breathing kunt from the north east or California tries to preach to me or teach me about race relations.
Thanks for the compliment. I agree with most of the sentiment on here with regards to SJW in blue states. The biggest example of this are celebrities. They have all this wealth and can easily donate to charities or other organizations that help minorities (and some do) but overall they preach how OTHER PEOPLE should do it.
Also they want better race relations, but they do not have to deal with the fallout of racial tension. They are safe in their mansions while people have to deal with the killings and other atrocities that are spurred on by criminals and race agitators.
I dont hate them for their wealth, but alot of them have this god complex and I dislike being told how I should address social norms outside of my own experiences.
As for the Small vs Big government, I actually prefer having a powerful federal government. However the power of federal government should only be used in cases where the problem violates human rights, personal or federal property endangerment, revolutionary movements that could topple the republic, and the physical and emotional health of your family.
In other words, small government really should be the determiner of the majority of the nation's issues. While the federal government handles issues on a scale that would simply be ineffective for a state to handle (basically a safety net, but not welfare).
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:07 am to volod
quote:
For you military aficionados, another scenario would be how WWI and WWII would be fought. There is a strong likelihood that the South would possibly join AXIS powers or that the US/CSA as we know it would never become a world power.
Dude.
If the war had never been fought or if the South had won they'd be allied with and backed by France and probably also Great Britain.
There's a 0% chance they'd have backed the Nazis.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:07 am to volod
This is like asking if Jewish relations would be better if Nazi Germany still existed. What a stupid, stupid thread.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:07 am to ell_13
quote:
Confederate States of America
Had not had meh coffee yetPosted on 6/1/17 at 9:09 am to jdeval1
This is spot on
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:09 am to SpqrTiger
quote:
I don't think the CSA would have jumped on board with the Axis powers
I wonder how a divided America would have impacted the first World War. Would the presence of a rival on the continent prevented entry into the European war? How would that have changed European history?
This post was edited on 6/1/17 at 9:18 am
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:12 am to Crow Pie
Whooooooooo
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:15 am to volod
quote:
There is a strong likelihood that the South would possibly join AXIS powers
There's a fricking leap
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:20 am to volod
quote:
If there was an alternative timeline where the South won the civil war or peace had been made with the Union, do you feel that the plight of slavery would have been resolved.
Even if the CSA had won the war, slavery wouldn't have lasted much longer in the South. First, because the CSA would need European allies for both trade and military purposes. European powers had all abolished slavery well before the US Civil War started. So the CSA still being a slave holding nation would have been potentially problematic for them forging European alliances. Also, the late 1800's saw developments in technology and machinery. These new machines would be doing the majority of the work that previously was done by slave labor. Less need for their labor plus increased political pressure from overseas would've likely ended slavery in the south even if the CSA won the war.
quote:
For you military aficionados, another scenario would be how WWI and WWII would be fought. There is a strong likelihood that the South would possibly join AXIS powers or that the US/CSA as we know it would never become a world power.
I doubt that the South would have any interest in allying with Hitler. But depending on how Union-Confederacy relations went after the Civil War, I think its very plausible that they wouldn't want to fight together in the war and either one side joins the European Allies while the other sits the wars in Europe out. Or that both the Union and CSA sit out WW1 and WW2 in Europe, to avoid sending massive troops numbers overseas and leaving themselves vulnerable to a sneak attack by their rival neighbor. Not having the unified strength of the US on the Allies could've easily tipped the balance of power and allowing for a German victory in either of the World Wars.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:23 am to jdeval1
Black or white doesn't matter. It's the two parent households that matter. If you are born in a one parent household (white or black), the odds are against you especially on low socioeconomic demographics
Trailer park white kids vs ghetto black kids all the same
Trailer park white kids vs ghetto black kids all the same
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:25 am to SpqrTiger
quote:
I don't think the CSA would have jumped on board with the Axis powers. You're assuming that the CSA would view the U.S. as an enemy
Yeah, this is a leap. Let's think of a timeline here. WW1 and WW2 are were 49 and 74 years after the civil war. So that would have given the two countries (Union and CSA) roughly 50 years to mend relations.
We dropped nukes on Japan in WW2. They were vicious enemies along with Germany who epitomized evil by current standards. 50 years later and relations with those countries was pretty much normal (not taking into account Russian influence in east Germany, which is a totally different aspect).
When you look at similar timelines, I think the whole CSA/Union thing is buried by the time of those wars. I see no reason why CSA's interest in those wars would be any different that the US's. Especially if we all kind of agree that race relations would have likely been on at least a similar trajectory.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:27 am to volod
quote:
If there was an alternative timeline where the South won the civil war or peace had been made with the Union, do you feel that the plight of slavery would have been resolved.
The Southern states stated in their constitution multiple protections for slavery. It is arguable that the practice could have potentially reached into the 1940s or worse.
I don't know when or if the CSA would have abolished slavery, but even if they got rid of the name, I doubt very seriously anything would have changed in a meaningful sense. Even 100 years after slavery, the states of the old confederacy still had institutionalized segregation, active disenfranchisement of black voters and a host of other discriminatory policies that kept black people in effective economic slavery. The only real difference was that at least they could leave, which they did in large numbers to northern cities.
There's no reason to think any of that would have changed without government action at the federal level and civil rights protests, etc. at the national level. No former confederate state voluntarily did away with these policies at least into the 1960s, when they were forced to, and there's no reason to think they would have by now.
Yes, I know the south has changed somewhat, but that is practically all because they were forced to change their policies and the next generation grew up with more integration and official recognition of racial equality. Had they grown up in a segregated society with institutional racism, they would have turned out just like their parents and grandparents, and it's doubtful anything would have changed.
And frankly, even as it is, it hasn't changed as much as some would like to claim. I would bet that you could hold a whites-only vote in Mississippi right now on the question of whether slavery should be reinstated, and "yes" would get at least 30% of the vote. If the question were on segregation of schools and other public offices and businesses, the "yes" vote would be well over 50%. Now, of course, that's Mississippi, which is the worst of all of the southern states, but other southern states wouldn't be all that much better, either, except maybe Florida, Virginia and North Carolina.
So, to answer your question, no, race relations would not be "better" in a modern CSA than they are in the current USA, although they might be quieter due to repression of public protest in the CSA.
quote:
For you military aficionados, another scenario would be how WWI and WWII would be fought. There is a strong likelihood that the South would possibly join AXIS powers or that the US/CSA as we know it would never become a world power.
I doubt that CSA would have joined the Axis, but it's very possible that it would have stayed out of the war altogether or provided only minimal support to the Allies. Supporting Axis would have been suicide and they would have known that.
As for becoming a world power, the US probably still would have been a major power because of its manufacturing capacity and large population. CSA would likely have been fairly strong economically if they ever modernized their post-civil war economy from the commodity-based economy they had into a manufacturing economy. It's entirely possible that USA and CSA would have remained trade partners with CSA providing raw materials and USA doing the manufacturing. Obviously, neither would have been as strong on its own as the USA was with both.
quote:
Why do you think a nation which abolished slavery would forego that to support a nation that thrives on it. And I doubt the Allied European powers would want that either.
If you're asking whether the USA would ally itself with the CSA and wondering if European allies would have wanted to, then I think the answer is yes. They would have been happy to work with anybody who was willing to help, as evidenced by the alliance with USSR during the war.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:29 am to volod
quote:
Do you feel race relations would be better if CSA still existed.
The things that y'all post here never cease to amaze me. This place would make a perfect case study on the psyche of the southern, white, male Gen-Xer.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:33 am to TooFyeToFly
quote:
The things that y'all post here never cease to amaze me. This place would make a perfect case study on the psyche of the southern, white, male Gen-Xer.
Volod is pretty far from white
Posted on 6/1/17 at 9:33 am to KG6
Also just think of the demographics in the south. Historically the south has been British, French, Spanish and Irish. All the Germans are in the North/Midwest.
All of this goes without even mentioning the fact that the CSA existing wouldn't have changed the situation of WW1 one iota. The Zimmerman telegram would still happen. Does anyone really thing the south would forgive that?
OP is retarded
All of this goes without even mentioning the fact that the CSA existing wouldn't have changed the situation of WW1 one iota. The Zimmerman telegram would still happen. Does anyone really thing the south would forgive that?
OP is retarded
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