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re: Do Russian history students learn about WWII the other way around?
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:50 am to AUCE05
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:50 am to AUCE05
I hold the opinion that, no matter how you slice it, the use of the nukes were justified and it was the only way to totally destroy imperial Japan without having to risk millions of America lives
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:51 am to Chazzy McRamzee
Not true. The communist and nationalist forces declared a ceasefire during the Japanese invasion and only resumed the conflict after WW2.
quote:
The Republic of China was fighting Communist China (backed by Russia) and the Japanese at the same time.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:51 am to WestCoastAg
quote:
But to act like the western allies just came in and took the credit is stupid and ridiculous
We supplied the frick out of them. Those GMC trucks and P-39's didn't just appear overnight.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:52 am to TheGasMan
Would the US be better off by a unified Europe? I don't think so. We are better off when the other nations are weaker.
WW2 was the best thing that ever happened to the US.
WW2 was the best thing that ever happened to the US.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:54 am to TheTideMustRoll
Good post. I have read that, but didn't want to get heavy on the subject. Even today, you are labeled a racist if you question the Jewish role in Europe, but I have never understood how you can have a complete understanding of the war unless you understand what the Jews were doing, and how it was having a negative effect on the German people. They have a ton of skin in the game.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:55 am to WestCoastAg
This is false. The German offensive in the Ardennes was not intended to win the war. The Germans already knew at that point they could not win. The Ardennes offensive was intended to damage and delay the West long enough for Hitler and his cronies to be able to convince them that the USSR was the true enemy, and then the western Allies would join forces with the Germans to throw the Russians back into Siberia and save the world from communism. Yes, the Nazis really believed this was a possibility.
The only thing the offensive ultimately achieved was ensuring that the Russians would reach Berlin before the US.
The only thing the offensive ultimately achieved was ensuring that the Russians would reach Berlin before the US.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:56 am to AUCE05
quote:
I am agreeing to a point. I am not saying it is my opinion, just how the Germans viewed the Jews. WW2 was just phase two of WW1. Poverty lead to the rise of Hiter, which allowed his extreme views to blossom. But you can't argue the Jewish population had a hand in what was going on financially. They weren't the sole cause, but Hitler made them the enemy.
The Treat of Versailles, reparations, and loss of their industrial capabilities in the Rhineland caused their economic woes. Not the Jews. Not even in part. Jews had a hand in the political opposition to Weimar and the Nazis by many being communists, which made Hitler dislike them for two reasons.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:58 am to TheTideMustRoll
quote:I know all of this. That was the moment that Germany ceased as a capable fighting force and was at the will to the Russian and western allies
This is false. The German offensive in the Ardennes was not intended to win the war. The Germans already knew at that point they could not win. The Ardennes offensive was intended to damage and delay the West long enough for Hitler and his cronies to be able to convince them that the USSR was the true enemy, and then the western Allies would join forces with the Germans to throw the Russians back into Siberia and save the world from communism. Yes, the Nazis really believed this was a possibility.
The only thing the offensive ultimately achieved was ensuring that the Russians would reach Berlin before the US.
This post was edited on 1/8/17 at 10:59 am
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:58 am to AUCE05
quote:
But you can't argue the Jewish population had a hand in what was going on financially.
It was that Germans were poor and then they saw Jews doing well and THEN blamed them for their troubles. Jewish people tend to stick together and keep money in their groups. I am not sure how that works, but even now you see evidence of it. So you are a poor German pushing a wheelbarrow full of marks to the store to get a loaf of bread, which now costs $1T marks, then a Jewish guy passes you in his Benz, you feel like he is complacent in your suffering. Hitler and others seized on this sentiment and exploited it. But in reality the Jewish people stuck together and that is why they weathered the collapse of Germany better than most.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:58 am to Tiger1242
Russian history books also teach that the U.S. "stole" Alaska from Russia by replacing the word "lease" with "sell" in the transfer treaty.
They claim Czar Alexander II thought he was signing a 99 year lease agreement with the U.S. for $7.2 million because that was the wording of his Russian translation version of the treaty. But the Americans substituted "sell" in the English version.
They use the date of Alaska's statehood admission as proof that the U.S. knew it was supposed to return Alaska to Russia in 1966, 99 years after the 1867 transaction, because congress admitted Alaska as a state in 1959 to make it impossible for the Russians to regain Alaska.
I had two different Russians in two different Russian cities explain that to me. It was all I could to avoid laughing as they told me.
They claim Czar Alexander II thought he was signing a 99 year lease agreement with the U.S. for $7.2 million because that was the wording of his Russian translation version of the treaty. But the Americans substituted "sell" in the English version.
They use the date of Alaska's statehood admission as proof that the U.S. knew it was supposed to return Alaska to Russia in 1966, 99 years after the 1867 transaction, because congress admitted Alaska as a state in 1959 to make it impossible for the Russians to regain Alaska.
I had two different Russians in two different Russian cities explain that to me. It was all I could to avoid laughing as they told me.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:58 am to TheTideMustRoll
quote:
TheTideMustRoll
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:59 am to Napoleon
quote:
No, it is not correct at all. In fact Roosevelt was bending over backwards to give Stalin war goods way before we entered the war. Thousands of ships and planes and tanks and jeeps were given to russia by the US. The only thing that really pissed Stalin off about the US, was that we went to Africa before Europe. The US wanted to push the Reich back from it's weakest parts, while Stalin wanted a front opened on France ASAP.
Sorry about the downvote. Meant to upvote. Fat fingers, small screen.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 11:00 am to TheTideMustRoll
quote:so much correctness in this post
Obviously this will veer the thread off course, but prejudice against Jews was present everywhere in Europe, not just Germany. It was rooted in the fact that, under the medieval Catholic Church, usury (lending money at interest) was prohibited by papal decree. Judaism had no such prohibition, so naturally many Jews became moneylenders. As banking became a thing in the Renaissance, it was also then natural for Jews to be heavily involved in them, since they had already been carrying out some of the same functions. Jews also, again naturally, tended to keep to themselves, and of course there was a great deal of prejudice directed towards them for the Jewish role in the crucifixion and just from a religious standpoint in general. Combine all of that together and let it stew for a few hundred years, and you get the Jewish stereotype: selfish, evil, in control of the world's money, and only interested in stealing whatever money they didn't control already.
Germany post-WWI was a powder keg looking for a match. The Great War had cost them millions dead with nothing to show for it. Also remember that there was never any serious fighting on German soil, and that just two months prior to the German surrender, at the height of the German 1918 offensive, it seriously appeared that Germany would win. This combined to produce in the average German a willingness to believe that Germany hadn't truly been beaten, that they had been sold out and betrayed when victory was still possible. It didn't help that prominent military leaders at the time were saying the same thing in an effort to not be blamed for the defeat. All that was needed was a villain, and Hitler and the Nazis helpfully stepped in to provide one in the form of international Jewry, who were already hated and who no one really cared what happened to. All of the anger and pain and shame people felt over the extraordinary cost of losing the war and the awful economic collapse afterwards suddenly had a focus, and that focus is what allowed Hitler to gain power.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 11:00 am to Tiger1242
The rise of Hitler was a response to elitist Jews starving and hurting lower/middle class Germans. Same thing is happening in America right now.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 11:03 am to Tiger1242
Great thread, reminds me of when the History Channelhad entertaining programming and not just American Pickers.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 11:03 am to WestCoastAg
I'm not sure I agree with that either, but I see what you are saying. I would argue that the destruction of Army Group Center during Operation Bagration in the summer of '44 was the true end of the German Army as a fighting force. After that they lacked the capacity to meaningfully resist the Russians.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 11:05 am to Napoleon
quote:
Would the US be better off by a unified Europe? I don't think so. We are better off when the other nations are weaker.
WW2 was the best thing that ever happened to the US.
No more free trade within the British Empire and two decades of economic and infrastructure catchup for all of Europe, while we turned our war factories into peacetime factories to supply the world, then leant them money to buy the supplies. That described role and above factors in the beginning of American economic dominance is very under-appreciated I feel.
This post was edited on 1/8/17 at 11:06 am
Posted on 1/8/17 at 11:05 am to Dude man 25
quote:
elitist Jews starving and hurting lower/middle class Germans. Same thing is happening in America right now.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 11:07 am to LSURussian
quote:
LSURussian
this probably a loaded question but I have always been curious.
Since Russia is so massive but the Majority of the population is on the Euro side. What are the Asian steppe people like? Do they identify as Russian in the same way?
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