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re: Do Russian history students learn about WWII the other way around?
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:37 am to TIGERSandFROGS
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:37 am to TIGERSandFROGS
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:38 am to WestCoastAg
Until I did my own reading and research of WWII, I thought the world was a pubic hair away from all speaking German until America swooped in and saved the day 
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:39 am to AUCE05
quote:
Now, extremism won, which is terrifying, but the elite Jewish population during the era had a hand in starving the common German, which fueled the revolution, and rise of Hitler.
Hitler tried to get the Nazi party recognized in 1924, he wrote Mein Kampf in 1925. WW1 ended in 1918. So you are saying that the Jews between 1918 and 1924 are the reason that the Nazi's targeted them? It wasn't to the late 30's that the real anti-jewish programs came about, years after the Nazis were in power. A lot of the anti-Jewish sentiment from the Nazis was actually because the majority of communists were ethnic Jews. All the founders of the USSR save for Stalin were of some Jewish ancestry. It's a reason why the White Russians killed hundreds of thousands of Jews before the Czar's regime was overthrown.
The truth is Jews were scapegoated, plain and simple.
The "elite" screwing the German people were the old Prussians and counts and others who had to either be Nazis or die.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:39 am to WestCoastAg
Edgy post of the day: Would we have been better off had Germany won WWI? WWII likely wouldn't have happened, at least not in the capacity of how it kicked off.
WWII began as a direct result of the Treaty of Versailles.
WWII began as a direct result of the Treaty of Versailles.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:39 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:I don't know if I'd throw monumental but it's not insignificant. Germany was still a capable fighting force by the time the western allies invaded, even if they were on the road to losing the war in the east. The absolute true nail in the coffin was the massive german counteroffensive in the Ardennes that the western allies repelled
DDay was monumental
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:40 am to TheGasMan
quote:really don't think it would have mattered much. We still would have had a massive second war after
Would we have been better off had Germany won WWI?
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:40 am to Tiger1242
Stalingrado
This post was edited on 1/8/17 at 10:41 am
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:40 am to Tiger1242
They also used to tell their people that they made Jeeps in a town called "Willys-Overland" in southern USSR.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:41 am to ksayetiger
quote:
And millions upon millions of other innocent people? More than hitler and hussein combined.
I am 26. Took WWII class in high school plus regular world history. It was still a ton of America focused. The Eastern front was mainly a side dish. Winter and Stalin killing people is what we learned.
It makes sense, though. I learned history from people that were one generation or two generations from fighting. The second generation people were more likely to be closer their fighting age grandparents. So of course, they are going to focus on what America did.
Now-a-days, you have people becoming teachers that may have never known their grandparent that fought, like myself if I went into teaching. So it is not surprising that we are starting to take a more worldly view on the conflict. The scary thing is going to be when teachers start to merge WWI and II into one conflict.
Not to mention that Russia was public enemy number 1 for half a century and they limited the information that we got about their battles. Now you can actual talk about Russia without being called a commie
This post was edited on 1/8/17 at 10:44 am
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:41 am to vilma4prez
quote:
But did the Russians fight Japan?
like, They went balls out against Germany but did they assist on other fronts?
No, they didn't declare war on Japan until the US had already dropped the first bomb. Then they moved into Manchuria and Korea. Opportunists.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:43 am to Napoleon
As others have pointed out, there really wasn't "one" country that defeated nazi Germany. It was a combined effort between the United States, England, and the soviets in which all three were equally important
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:43 am to Napoleon
I am agreeing to a point. I am not saying it is my opinion, just how the Germans viewed the Jews. WW2 was just phase two of WW1. Poverty lead to the rise of Hiter, which allowed his extreme views to blossom. But you can't argue the Jewish population had a hand in what was going on financially. They weren't the sole cause, but Hitler made them the enemy.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:44 am to Tiger1242
They probably emphasize the defense of Moscow, Stalingrad and their huge tank battles and skip the part where they partitioned Poland with Hitler or when they attacked Finland and were stymied.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:45 am to vilma4prez
quote:Funny you should ask that.
But did the Russians fight Japan?
Actually Russia notified Japan on August 8, 1945 that it would consider itself at war with Imperial Japan as of the next day, August 9, 1945. And on that next day Russia invaded Japanese held small, northern islands, Manchuria and areas of Korea under Japanese control.
On August 15, 1945 Imperial Japan announced its unconditional surrender to the Allies.
So, guess what the Russian history books say about Japan's surrender??
This post was edited on 1/8/17 at 10:46 am
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:45 am to Tiger1242
quote:
Is that not correct in your opinion?
No, it is not correct at all. In fact Roosevelt was bending over backwards to give Stalin war goods way before we entered the war. Thousands of ships and planes and tanks and jeeps were given to russia by the US. The only thing that really pissed Stalin off about the US, was that we went to Africa before Europe. The US wanted to push the Reich back from it's weakest parts, while Stalin wanted a front opened on France ASAP.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:46 am to LSURussian
quote:
Actually Russia notified Japan on August 8, 1945 that it would consider itself at war with Imperial Japan as of the next day, August 9, 1945. And on that next day Russia invaded Japanese held small, northern islands and areas of Korea under Japanese control.
On August 15, 1945 Imperial Japan announced its unconditional surrender to the Allies.
I love the edge hot take from redditors that just watch Oliver Stone's untold history of the united states.
"muaah America only nuked Japan to scare the Russians"
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:47 am to LSURussian
Another topic for another day is how, before the Soviet declaration of war on Japan, the Japanese were trying to get the soviets to mediate a more amicable peace treaty between Japan and the united states
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:48 am to WestCoastAg
That leads to the discussion of was the nukes really necessary. Most think it was a warning to Russia, and us flexing.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:49 am to TIGERSandFROGS
Obviously this will veer the thread off course, but prejudice against Jews was present everywhere in Europe, not just Germany. It was rooted in the fact that, under the medieval Catholic Church, usury (lending money at interest) was prohibited by papal decree. Judaism had no such prohibition, so naturally many Jews became moneylenders. As banking became a thing in the Renaissance, it was also then natural for Jews to be heavily involved in them, since they had already been carrying out some of the same functions. Jews also, again naturally, tended to keep to themselves, and of course there was a great deal of prejudice directed towards them for the Jewish role in the crucifixion and just from a religious standpoint in general. Combine all of that together and let it stew for a few hundred years, and you get the Jewish stereotype: selfish, evil, in control of the world's money, and only interested in stealing whatever money they didn't control already.
Germany post-WWI was a powder keg looking for a match. The Great War had cost them millions dead with nothing to show for it. Also remember that there was never any serious fighting on German soil, and that just two months prior to the German surrender, at the height of the German 1918 offensive, it seriously appeared that Germany would win. This combined to produce in the average German a willingness to believe that Germany hadn't truly been beaten, that they had been sold out and betrayed when victory was still possible. It didn't help that prominent military leaders at the time were saying the same thing in an effort to not be blamed for the defeat. All that was needed was a villain, and Hitler and the Nazis helpfully stepped in to provide one in the form of international Jewry, who were already hated and who no one really cared what happened to. All of the anger and pain and shame people felt over the extraordinary cost of losing the war and the awful economic collapse afterwards suddenly had a focus, and that focus is what allowed Hitler to gain power.
Germany post-WWI was a powder keg looking for a match. The Great War had cost them millions dead with nothing to show for it. Also remember that there was never any serious fighting on German soil, and that just two months prior to the German surrender, at the height of the German 1918 offensive, it seriously appeared that Germany would win. This combined to produce in the average German a willingness to believe that Germany hadn't truly been beaten, that they had been sold out and betrayed when victory was still possible. It didn't help that prominent military leaders at the time were saying the same thing in an effort to not be blamed for the defeat. All that was needed was a villain, and Hitler and the Nazis helpfully stepped in to provide one in the form of international Jewry, who were already hated and who no one really cared what happened to. All of the anger and pain and shame people felt over the extraordinary cost of losing the war and the awful economic collapse afterwards suddenly had a focus, and that focus is what allowed Hitler to gain power.
Posted on 1/8/17 at 10:49 am to TheTideMustRoll
quote:
Yes, but the question was, "How do you think World War 2 is taught in Russia?" not, "What really happened in World War 2?" Obviously the two things will most likely differ, especially in a country spiritually descended from the Soviet Union.
I was replying to your comment about it "all being kind of correct". If you view the Eastern front in a vacuum then it is correct. However, if the Eastern front/Great Patriotic War had been fought in a vacuum, the Cold War might have been fought between the Nazi controlling nearly all of Eurasia and the US controlling the Americas and the Pacific, there would be no Jews in Europe, and we would be pulling mines out of the English Channel until the end of time.
(In this alternate reality I just created, the English and US signed a treaty with Nazi Germany after the fall of Moscow, the US kept fighting Japan and won in a ground/naval war, and the English Channel/Atlantic Wall becomes a Fascist Iron Curtain)
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