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re: Country Music is changing, Jason Isbell's White Man's World

Posted on 6/30/18 at 12:45 pm to
Posted by RabidTiger
Member since Nov 2009
3127 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 12:45 pm to
quote:

No one is melting except apparently you and other tools on here using straw man arguments about this thread.


Please, look at all the hysterics in this thread from people who admit that they don't know who Isbell is, and they have never heard his music. Hardly fertile ground for a discussion "in the context of his music and others in his genre."

Rubes have been having a fit all over TD about this song ever since it came out over a year ago. It's a comically absurd to see it come up again.
Posted by Sayre
South Bend, Indiana
Member since Nov 2011
5754 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

please post the lyrics to Johnny Cash's functional equivalent of Isbell's "High Road," and then we'll debate.


Damn, but I do marvel at the ignorance of so many people who post on discussion boards like they know what they're talking about.

The Ballad of Ira Hayes

Ira Hayes
Ira Hayes
Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinking Indian
Or the marine that went to war

Gather 'round me people
There's a story I would tell
'Bout a brave young Indian
You should remember well
From the land of the Pima Indian
A proud and noble band
Who farmed the Phoenix Valley
In Arizona land
Down the ditches a thousand years
The waters grew Ira's peoples' crops
'Til the white man stole their water rights
And the sparkling water stopped
Now, Ira's folks were hungry
And their land grew crops of weeds
When war came, Ira volunteered
And forgot the white man's greed

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinking Indian
Or the marine that went to war

There they battled up Iwo Jima hill
Two hundred and fifty men
But only twenty-seven lived
To walk back down again
And when the fight was over
And Old Glory raised
Among the men who held it high
Was the Indian, Ira Hayes

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinking Indian
Or the marine that went to war

Ira Hayes returned a hero
Celebrated through the land
He was wined and speeched and honored
Everybody shook his hand
But he was just a Pima Indian
No water, no home, no chance
At home nobody cared what Ira'd done
And when did the Indians dance

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinking Indian
Or the marine that went to war

Then Ira started drinking hard
Jail was often his home
They let him raise the flag and lower it
Like you'd throw a dog a bone
He died drunk early one morning
Alone in the land he fought to save
Two inches of water and a lonely ditch
Was a grave for Ira Hayes

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinking Indian
Or the marine that went to war

Yeah, call him drunken Ira Hayes
But his land is just as dry
And his ghost is lying thirsty
In the ditch where Ira died

Johnny Cash was a SJW. At probably the peak of his popularity, he released 'Bitter Tears: Ballads of the American Indian' . “The Ballad of Ira Hayes” was denied promotion by the record label due to its provocative protesting and “unappealing” nature. Cash fought back with a letter run as an advertisement in Billboard magazine. He called the record industry cowardly. “DJs, station managers, owners,” he wrote, “where are your guts? So many stations are afraid of Ira Hayes. Why? Because Ira Hayes is strong medicine… So is Rochester, Harlem, Birmingham, and Vietnam.” Cash kept promoting the song himself without the record label’s help, and it eventually made it to number three on the country charts.

Johnny and June Cash went to Vietnam in 1971 to perform for the troops. He was a veteran himself, and an American patriot. He felt it was his duty to perform a series of concerts for those who were serving their country.

After that tour, he became a fervent anti-war protester.

Cash wrote another anti-war song called “Drive On” after sending a letter to President George H.W. Bush protesting the first Iraq War. “Drive on—it don’t mean nothing—is an expression they used a lot in Vietnam when I was there,” Cash would explain. He believed in non-violence and wanted to keep his soldier brethren from going and dying in another war. The song is just him and a guitar that showcases his true grit and honesty. Cash once said, “The only thing good to come out of a war is a song.”

Johnny was a defender of the working man as well. He wouldn’t take the stage unless the American flag was flying, and he wouldn’t tolerate a show unless the crew running it were unionized.
Posted by McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
35326 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

 don’t know. I’ve seen a lot of great concerts. Never noticed any prog filth talking points. Never heard a singer tell me about white privilege or any of that nonsense. Of course I haven’t been to a concert in the past few years and I realize the liberals have gone off the deep end since then


My most memorable bad experiences:
Michael Penn spouted a bunch of totally partisan nonsense in a small venue and people finally aksed him to just play.

During R.E.M.'s last tour, Michael Stipe told fans that if they didn't vote for Obama then they were desecrating the grave of MLKJ. And The National -- who opened-- was selling/passing out Mr November shirts w a Che-style image of Obama on them.

Jump Little Children , in a tiny tiny venue, once rambled incoherently for half the show about how George Bush was fricking up the country (their words).

James Taylor gave a 20 minute speech (rant) about how we were destroying the environment.

There are more but I've blocked them out.

How many times have I received a non-leftist diatribe at a concert?
ZERO.




Posted by McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
35326 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 12:48 pm to
You took the bait. I'm so glad you posted that one. Want a compare and contrast to Isbell's snowflake melt about Hillary losing the election, or should I just let those two sets of lyrics speak for themselves.
Posted by fallguy_1978
Best States #50
Member since Feb 2018
53525 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

Johnny Cash was a SJW

Merle Haggard was too actually.
Posted by starsandstripes
Georgia
Member since Nov 2017
11897 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 12:51 pm to
quote:

Alan Jackson is rolling over in his grave right now


Wut?
Posted by McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
35326 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

Johnny Cash was a SJW


Merle Haggard was too actually.


They were of a different breed and era. Also no one is arguing that musicians shouldn't fight for what they believe in and even sing about it.

This thread is about an interview with Isbell where he said people pay him to give his opinions + a critique of the hackish and purile way in which he voices same.

No one is trying to silense [I love how my auto-correct changes real words to fake ones] Isbell or anyone else.

To me this about taste. People like Haggard and Cash were obviously pre- modern-SJW and pre- the social media virtue signalling moral-self-licensing epedemic we're suffering today.

All of that certainly existed. But it's a matter of degree, scale and focus.
This post was edited on 6/30/18 at 1:11 pm
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
86171 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:11 pm to
The most respected country music has always been contrarian, and the most commercial has always been more traditional. So this is hardly new . You could argue that Isbell is deep in the popular culture herd or you could argue that he is outside the Nashville herd. I’m not sure which.

As for Cash and Haggard and their support for the oppressed or the working man or chronicling those struggling on the margins of society , I would argue that is a long way from championing SJW/Leftist/anti- American ideals. They in fact were fierce defenders of American traditionalism and Individual Liberty, they just wanted America to be consistent in applying these ideals.

That is a LONG way for advocating for Racial Identity politics . I’d argue Isbell has gone a bridge too far in that regard , in aligning himself with people who gleefully deny the rights of others.
Posted by brgfather129
Los Angeles, CA
Member since Jul 2009
17360 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:16 pm to
quote:

I’m a white man living on a white man’s street / I’ve got the bones of the red man under my feet / The highway runs through their burial grounds / Past the oceans of cotton


Those lyrics are awful.
Posted by thelawnwranglers
Member since Sep 2007
42331 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:18 pm to
Red man = racist
Posted by brgfather129
Los Angeles, CA
Member since Jul 2009
17360 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

How many times have I received a non-leftist diatribe at a concert?
ZERO.


I think Ted Nugent is playing at the Texas Club next month.
Posted by NoSaint
Member since Jun 2011
12689 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:19 pm to
quote:

aligning himself with people who gleefully deny the rights of others.


Which rights have you seen him deny?
Posted by RedPop4
Santiago de Compostela
Member since Jan 2005
15292 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:20 pm to
quote:

For the life of me, I don't understand how he's so popular. I'm not implying that I necessarily dislike his music, but his body of work is just not that good to garner the admiration he has received


Which is why he wrote and performs this song. SJW "speaking truth to power" and what-have-you is the surest route to critical acclaim. He can't and won't accomplish it on the strength of his music, perhaps, but damn, he'll be relevant in the media.
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
86171 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:21 pm to
Wango Tango ? Code for White Trump ?
Might want to get CNN on the case .
Posted by thelawnwranglers
Member since Sep 2007
42331 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:22 pm to
If you are from Manhattan do you have red man's bones under your feet or is it aight since land was bought?
Posted by WMTigerFAN
Ouachita
Member since Feb 2005
5000 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:23 pm to
Elephant, Children of Children and Last of My Kind all resonate with me. His political tones are nothing to me, because I'm used to artists having a liberal bent. Hell, life ain't black and white anyway. Everyone's reality is just a little different. I'm a big fan of the Outlaw Country of the 70's, but Isbell is okay with me.
Posted by NoSaint
Member since Jun 2011
12689 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

Isbell grew up like 5 miles from me and is my age (we're both 39). He was not "privileged" whatsoever. Pretty sure his parents were white trash 18-20 year olds barely making it when he was born. He went to a crappy public school. I used to know a girl he dated really well (she was in my HS class and also made it in Nashville herself). For him to claim he is "privileged" is flat out retarded. There were like 2 black people in the whole redneck two bit town where he grew up, so he knows jack shite about "the black man's plight."


It’s weird- like maybe you think that means something different than he does.
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
86171 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:24 pm to
You have basic reading comprehension issues.
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
86171 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:30 pm to
I think Isbell may be projecting the casual racism of his home or peer group growing up onto other people. That’s a common SJW mistake, they feel guilty about The stupid racist shite Uncle Earl said at Thanksgiving and they overcompensate later in life. Very common but also dishonest to project your racist upbringing into other people who never had that kind of upbringing. ( Thanks Mom and Dad ).
Posted by RabidTiger
Member since Nov 2009
3127 posts
Posted on 6/30/18 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

Which is why he wrote and performs this song. SJW "speaking truth to power" and what-have-you is the surest route to critical acclaim. He can't and won't accomplish it on the strength of his music, perhaps, but damn, he'll be relevant in the media.


That's a nice little theory, but Jason Isbell already solidified his critical acclaim and his place in music with Southeastern which came out in 2013.
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