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re: Could most legal cases be solved without a lawyer?
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:40 pm to Saunson69
Posted on 2/23/24 at 4:40 pm to Saunson69
Sure but you can’t advocate for yourself well. At least 99.9% of people can’t.
Your scenario is no different than any other job people normally hire others to do for them. Technically sure you can do it yourself but it’ll probably go poorly.
If your premise is that it’s easier for a random person to do a lawyers job than it is for a random person to do other jobs that they have no training or experience doing, that’s just wrong and you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what lawyers do and how the legal system operates.
And to be clear in a first time DWI or simple battery case you’d probably be offered a pretty straightforward plea deal with no jail time. So you are right in the sense that it probably doesn’t make sense to hire a lawyer bc you’ll just take the plea deal. It only makes sense to hire a lawyer if you want a better deal then what you’re being offered or want to fight it entirely.
Your scenario is no different than any other job people normally hire others to do for them. Technically sure you can do it yourself but it’ll probably go poorly.
If your premise is that it’s easier for a random person to do a lawyers job than it is for a random person to do other jobs that they have no training or experience doing, that’s just wrong and you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what lawyers do and how the legal system operates.
And to be clear in a first time DWI or simple battery case you’d probably be offered a pretty straightforward plea deal with no jail time. So you are right in the sense that it probably doesn’t make sense to hire a lawyer bc you’ll just take the plea deal. It only makes sense to hire a lawyer if you want a better deal then what you’re being offered or want to fight it entirely.
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 2/23/24 at 7:45 pm to Twenty 49
quote:
It’s the same with dentists
We both know it's not the same.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 7:50 pm to Saunson69
Good luck with that. Lol
It’s the connection you need in those cases not knowledge of the law.
I can tell you for a simple car wreck with no injuries or just simple soft tissue with a doctor visit or 2, you can resolve that yourself
It’s the connection you need in those cases not knowledge of the law.
I can tell you for a simple car wreck with no injuries or just simple soft tissue with a doctor visit or 2, you can resolve that yourself
Posted on 2/23/24 at 8:00 pm to Twenty 49
quote:
t’s the same with dentists. If it’s just a simple cavity, I have a dremel tool and JB Weld that patches the kids right up. Now if it’s a root canal or something more complex, we’ll consult YouTube experts.
I know this is a joke but some dude in my old neighborhood got arrested for practicing dentistry without a license. He was doing dental work on illegal immigrants out of his garage for cash. He bought a chair and some old dental equipment from some dentist who retired and set up an under the table operation in his garage. He was giving them pet store antibiotics.
That case had to be a treat for the prosecutor who caught it. Imagine prosecuting the same stupid people for the same stupid crimes over and over and suddenly an illegal dentist file comes across your desk. Gotta dust off the old statute books for that one.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 8:02 pm to Saunson69
Technically, you don’t need a surgeon to remove your own appendix…. A sharp knife and a map is all you need. However, I would not recommend it….
Posted on 2/23/24 at 8:05 pm to Saunson69
Do you pay a guy to cut your grass, clean your pool, landscape your yard?
Do you pay a CPA to do your taxes?
Why wouldn’t you pay a lawyer to do your dirty work?
frick man. It’s not that hard to understand
The guy that went to law school and his/her job is to do law shite, You’re damn right I’m paying that person to handle that shite.
Do you pay a CPA to do your taxes?
Why wouldn’t you pay a lawyer to do your dirty work?
frick man. It’s not that hard to understand
The guy that went to law school and his/her job is to do law shite, You’re damn right I’m paying that person to handle that shite.
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 8:06 pm
Posted on 2/23/24 at 8:11 pm to AUFANATL
And since he obviously did it, there was no point in hiring an attorney and he could just accept the first deal thrown at him
Posted on 2/23/24 at 8:19 pm to Saunson69
he who will be his own Counsellour, shall be sure to have a Fool for his Client
Posted on 2/23/24 at 8:23 pm to Saunson69
Ashamed to say this but I got a DWI at a low point in my life. I thought I could possibly get out of it with a lawyer. It cost me $7000 and I ultimately had to do pretrial intervention anyway. Could've saved a lot of money by not going to a lawyer.
Im certain that he knew I couldn't get out of it but was happy to drain me of that money. My two experiences with lawyers are polar opposites. One, a scumbag. The other, a really solid guy.
Im certain that he knew I couldn't get out of it but was happy to drain me of that money. My two experiences with lawyers are polar opposites. One, a scumbag. The other, a really solid guy.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 8:24 pm to Saunson69
The lawyers, judges, insurance companies, cops and jails are the largest circle jerk known to mankind. It’s a self-fulfilling pocket stuffing dream for them
Posted on 2/23/24 at 9:03 pm to Saunson69
You focus on traffic / criminal matters… here’s what I’d say the bottom line is in such cases: you can either negotiate a settlement / plead down, or go through a hearing.
Many cases are on these dockets, so the DA (& Judge) want to move efficiently. The DA doesn’t really want to talk to you on your own. They’d much prefer to speak to your lawyer.
Thus, your only shot (unless you want to plead to the charge filed) is to represent yourself in the hearing. You likely will not prevail.
Many cases are on these dockets, so the DA (& Judge) want to move efficiently. The DA doesn’t really want to talk to you on your own. They’d much prefer to speak to your lawyer.
Thus, your only shot (unless you want to plead to the charge filed) is to represent yourself in the hearing. You likely will not prevail.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 9:12 pm to jamiegla1
quote:
It cost me $7000 and I ultimately had to do pretrial intervention anyway. Could've saved a lot of money by not going to a lawyer.
If you got pretrial diversion with no conviction, then that was a great deal. Many would happily pay $7K for that, and most would not have a prayer of it without a lawyer casting doubt on the strength of the case.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 9:16 pm to Twenty 49
Ignorance of the law is not allowed as a defense . Which is total bs.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 10:13 pm to Twenty 49
quote:
If you got pretrial diversion with no conviction, then that was a great deal. Many would happily pay $7K for that, and most would not have a prayer of it without a lawyer casting doubt on the strength of the case.
bullshite. I coudlve gotten pre trial without stepping foot in the lawyers office. I only went to him because I thought I woudnt have to do anything. Pre trial alone would've cost me around $1500. The lawyer knew this but suggested I could "beat it"
Posted on 2/23/24 at 10:17 pm to Saunson69
Because lawyers have friends that you likely don’t
Posted on 2/24/24 at 12:52 am to Saunson69
I took someone to small claims court once after consulting with a couple of attorneys. It didn't make financial sense to hire an attorney and litigate at a higher level because the defendent was judgment proof, but I still wanted to force the defendent to answer for her actions.
The irony was, the defendent herself showed up with an attorney doing her a favor while taking on one of her big-money frivolous lawsuits. I was even able to successfully argue for evidence to be entered over the attorney's objections. The suit wound up being dismissed, and later research showed that I did myself more harm than good in the long run; however, it still wound up being an interesting experience.
The irony was, the defendent herself showed up with an attorney doing her a favor while taking on one of her big-money frivolous lawsuits. I was even able to successfully argue for evidence to be entered over the attorney's objections. The suit wound up being dismissed, and later research showed that I did myself more harm than good in the long run; however, it still wound up being an interesting experience.
This post was edited on 2/24/24 at 12:53 am
Posted on 2/24/24 at 1:27 am to Barrister
quote:
Technically, you don’t need a surgeon to remove your own appendix…. A sharp knife and a map is all you need. However, I would not recommend it….
Two are not the same and that's pretty blatant. Obviously much higher risk to do your own surgery on appendix compared to getting a 1st time arrest DWI .10 BAC and you had blown and representing yourself to try to lower penalties bc you won't go to jail over that.
This post was edited on 2/24/24 at 1:28 am
Posted on 2/24/24 at 5:02 am to Saunson69
quote:
Seems people hire a lawyer because that's the status quo, out of fear. The individual can look up their charge in their state and read the 2 paragraphs that discusses what their charge is. Saves you a couple thousand in these lower cases.
Never underestimate the average persons ability to frick up the most simple of things.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 6:01 am to TackySweater
quote:
Because lawyers have friends that you likely don’t
That helps too.
No telling the judge and your lawyer both went to Southern Law and graduated at the same time and are best friends.
All jokes aside, in some cases a lawyer can find one of those technicalities that could end up getting a case dismissed.
Case in point, let’s say you get sued over an unpaid debt and a document is missing or was not turned over as evidence. That could make the plaintiffs case not be valid and a judge could choose to dismiss it over just that fact.
Since most debts are sold to collection agencies, they may just buy a spreadsheet and one or two sheets of paper or PDFs of the debt. They are expecting that the debtor ignores the suit and they get a default judgment.
But there are many defenses a defendant can file to stop the easy process to a default judgment.
One is was the debt out of statute of limitations.
Ownership of the debt, they may not have the required documentation to sue. Just last year a debt collector was ordered to pay 24 million dollars in fines and restitution over just that.
Also, disagreements between the customer and the debt are argued based on the contract with the original creditor, some of those agreements include arbitration clauses where the debt case could move to an arbitration venue and cost the debt collector more to collect than to settle for less.
Sometimes debt collectors violate the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act such as contracting you at the wrong time or misrepresenting something in a communication to you. So that means you could counter sue in federal court and collect up 1,000 dollars per incident.
In most cases a defendant can file these arguments pro se without legal representation since sometimes legal defense will greatly increase the cost to settle the matter, but larger debt like over 5-10k it may make sense to have legal representation and/or begin the steps to filing bankruptcy with an attorney who gets paid first in some cases.
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