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Started By
Message
re: Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) ***W.H.O. DECLARES A GLOBAL PANDEMIC***
Posted on 4/10/20 at 11:20 am to TheCaterpillar
Posted on 4/10/20 at 11:20 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
My elderly parents and relatives can avoid smoking and and damage from second hand smoke easily. It has an odor, it is visible, it is 100% avoidable in 2020.
Your parents can stay home until there is a vaccine and 100% avoid coronavirus.
Again we are trying to save those that have a few years left, while allowing parents to smoke in their home with thier kids around leading to 98000 of them having premature deaths in Louisiana alone.
If 100% of people in Louisiana got Coronavirus, only around 25000 would die.
If we are willing to shutdown the economy and cause a great depression to save 25000 mostly old or obese people, why aren't we willing to outlaw tobacco products to save 98000 innocent children.
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 11:37 am
2
Posted on 4/10/20 at 11:27 am to Shaun176
So all the claims have been we need 2 weeks after peak for things to begin opening... although I disagree with that assessment, peak for a number of places is supposed to be Easter Sunday. Using that logic, that opens some thing back up 4/26.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 11:49 am to Shaun176
quote:
25000 mostly old or obese people
Just to be clear, over 75% of the deaths in Louisiana are NOT obese. Underlying conditions that have a higher number of deaths in Louisiana: Hypertension, Diabetes, & Chronic Kidney Disease. This board's obsession with fatties is mind-boggling.
quote:
why aren't we willing to outlaw tobacco products to save 98000 innocent children.
It is illegal for anyone under 21 to purchase them. And the line "More than 98,000 kids now under 18 in Louisiana will ultimately die prematurely from smoking." isn't saying the 98,000 innocent children will die before the age of 18. I read that as 98,000 of the people currently under 18 will ultimately die from smoking whether it's in 5 years or 50 years from now. This could include some 17-year old that will grow up and make the adult choice to begin smoking, then 50 years from now ultimately die prematurely from a smoking-related illness. Just to be clear, I'm no fan of smoking or smokers, but you are making a bad analogy.
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 11:51 am
Posted on 4/10/20 at 11:50 am to frankthetank
Can someone get fired from their job for contracting this or is that a lawsuit incoming?
Posted on 4/10/20 at 11:54 am to ashy larry
quote:
Just to be clear, over 75% of the deaths in Louisiana are NOT obese. Underlying conditions that have a higher number of deaths in Louisiana: Hypertension, Diabetes, & Chronic Kidney Disease. This board's obsession with fatties is mind-boggling.
Where are you getting this from. Obesity is a major cause of HTN, diabetes, and cardiovascular issues. I don't know about 70%, but I'd bet that obese patients represent significantly more than 50% of the deaths.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:01 pm to ashy larry
quote:
Just to be clear, over 75% of the deaths in Louisiana are NOT obese. Underlying conditions that have a higher number of deaths in Louisiana: Hypertension, Diabetes, & Chronic Kidney Disease. This board's obsession with fatties is mind-boggling.
Now do it for under 50 years old in critical care...
I'll help you out, it's very high. I'm knee deep in hospital data from hundreds of hospitals across the country every day. The rates of obesity in the under-50 critical care patients is staggering.
Of course hypertension is going to be the biggest underlying condition for deaths overall without age breakout. 65% of people over the age of 60 have it and they're the ones getting hit hardest by this.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:02 pm to Stevo
quote:
but I'd bet that obese patients represent significantly more than 50% of the deaths.
Under 50 deaths yeah, the older folks dying from this aren't a majority obese.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:04 pm to Stevo
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:04 pm to ashy larry
My real point is that as the reason for shutting down the economy shifts from preventing the hospitals from being overwhelmed to preventing all deaths, we are not making the same efforts to limit other causes of death with high mortality rates and a younger average age of death.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:07 pm to latxwoman
Likely religious freedom since many people do not want cremation on religious grounds + simple amount of cremation resources.
Haven't read about NY specifically but I know cremation services were totally overrun in Northern Italy and that also created "scary" pictures.
I cant imagine anyone being set up to cremate that many extra bodies without creating another "scare tactic".
Haven't read about NY specifically but I know cremation services were totally overrun in Northern Italy and that also created "scary" pictures.
I cant imagine anyone being set up to cremate that many extra bodies without creating another "scare tactic".
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:08 pm to TheCaterpillar
quote:
Now do it for under 50 years old in critical care...
I'm not saying that obesity isn't an issue. But to read this board you'd think only the old and obese are affected, hence my response. I was pointing out that despite what everyone keeps repeating, obesity is only listed on 24.70% of the DEATHS in Louisiana. Do I believe it has an effect on other cases like critical care? Of course, but that isn't what I was referring to.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:15 pm to ashy larry
quote:
But to read this board you'd think only the old and obese are affected, hence my response.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone claim solely obese... just 98% have pre existing conditions.
Jokingly saying that Louisiana in general is fat and/or unhealthy, which is true. 36% of La is obese.
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:19 pm to frankthetank
quote:
In this spirit of collaboration, Google and Apple are announcing a joint effort to enable the use of Bluetooth technology to help governments and health agencies reduce the spread of the virus, with user privacy and security central to the design.
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/04/apple-and-google-partner-on-covid-19-contact-tracing-technology/
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:20 pm to ashy larry
quote:
I'm not saying that obesity isn't an issue. But to read this board you'd think only the old and obese are affected, hence my response.
If you're not old or obese, your chances of needing critical care in a hospital are pretty remote. Even if you're young, being overweight exponentially increases your chances of poor outcomes.
So there is a lot of truth to the fat bashing
quote:
obesity is only listed on 24.70% of the DEATHS in Louisiana
Again, because most of the deaths are older folks.
If you limit the data to under 50, obesity rates explode.
This post was edited on 4/10/20 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:21 pm to Shaun176
quote:
My real point is that as the reason for shutting down the economy shifts from preventing the hospitals from being overwhelmed to preventing all deaths, we are not making the same efforts to limit other causes of death with high mortality rates and a younger average age of death.
Understood. There is a difference being someone choosing to smoke versus someone catching this virus trying to buy groceries or work. With that said, I am a fan of things opening back up in the near future. I don't think this needs to be drawn out if the hospitals can handle the load and PPE is readily available to those that need it. I'm in full agreement from TheCaterpillar's post a couple of pages back:
quote:
- Continue to isolate the vulnerable
- Ramp up both C19 and antibody testing to test everyone in the country so we can isolate and trace (and prioritize risk based on herd immunity)
- Continue social distancing for those out and about
- Continue working from home when possible
- Open businesses but have 50% capacity rules
- No large gathering type events like concerts and sports where social distancing is impossible
And if things can be opened by May 1, we'll have 3 weeks more data on treatment by that time. Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine are not the only drugs being tested right now and I have no doubt that the medical experts will learn more about this each day and survival & hospital rates will improve over time.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:24 pm to rds dc
quote:
One of my major concerns with that model is that it is too optimistic on the back end and resolves the issue too fast. So, if we don't see the curve flatten as fast as the model shows then people will point to the front end and argue that the model busted low b/c the measures were working. Then they will argue that we need to maintain or even increase these current restrictions to flatten the curve more like what the model is showing. Hopefully, Trump's team has already discussed this and will be ready to argue for open things back up, even if they aren't improving as fast as some of the various models show things should be improving.
The back end isn’t that important. A continued slow burn that doesn’t overwhelm the medical system is not justification to shut down the economy . Nobody expects the disease to be eradicated anytime soon. What would be concerning is trending to a second higher peak.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:31 pm to ashy larry
quote:
And if things can be opened by May 1, we'll have 3 weeks more data on treatment by that time. Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine are not the only drugs being tested right now and I have no doubt that the medical experts will learn more about this each day and survival & hospital rates will improve over time.
Very good point.
And PPE and vents will have caught up and be way ahead of the demand curve by then.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 12:50 pm to TheCaterpillar
quote:
But it is time to phase things back online. Shouldn't be hard to do if we do a handful of things:
- Continue to isolate the vulnerable
- Ramp up both C19 and antibody testing to test everyone in the country so we can isolate and trace (and prioritize risk based on herd immunity)
- Continue social distancing for those out and about
- Continue working from home when possible
- Open businesses but have 50% capacity rules
- No large gathering type events like concerts and sports where social distancing is impossible
That should be done regionally based on data and should start probably now, but I'll take May 1st.
I agree, I worry that testing and thus tracing will not be at a level on 5/1 where the "health experts" and governors allow for the economy to reopen. IMO that should be the #1 current focus and I just don't see the scaling action that is needed happening.
Every CVS/Walgreens/DR office/QUEST lab in the country should be able to fire off a test and tell you within 15min if you have it. We have got to get to that point if we are going to reopen.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 1:14 pm to TheCaterpillar
quote:Already are way ahead of the curve.
And PPE and vents will have caught up and be way ahead of the demand curve by then.
Posted on 4/10/20 at 1:23 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Already are way ahead of the curve.
Vents are but PPE not so much, not even close.
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