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re: Colorado deputy shot and killed unarmed man at point-blank range after struggle
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:28 pm to JiminyCricket
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:28 pm to JiminyCricket
quote:
The million dollar question though is did he indeed try to take the officers gun. If for example both the cop and ward had a hand on the gun and ward was shot in the struggle over it, that has to play a factor.
Once that point has been reached, it's hard to fault an officer doing everything they can to protect their life. I don't think anyone disagrees with that, nor should they
Where the bigger issue lies IMO is how they got to that point. The guy opens the door at :38 in the video. By the 2:20 mark the cop has his hand on his gun, and at 2:29 reaches in and starts to drag the guy out. Less than 2 minutes of interaction, the majority of the time both of the suspects hands are in plain view and empty.
The fact that the cop felt the need to physically take down an unarmed guy sitting in his mom's car after talking to him for less than 2 minutes is the real problem here. There was absolutely no visible reason why it had to go that direction that fast
5
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:28 pm to Napoleon
quote:
The truth is white people don't really care about other white people. Black people are tighter knit but only when attacked by a non black or law enforcemen
Sooooo tribalism
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:29 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Note the cops first reaction when the guy is digging for his ID is to put his hand on his gun.
Can the cop see inside the suspect's pants and tell that there isn't a weapon? Bullets go through fabric....just look at the dead guy.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:29 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Zero reason to grab and drag him out of the car.
Idk that that is completely accurate. It may not have been the best reason, but it's not like he walked up to the car and immediately drug the guy out.
quote:
Note the cops first reaction when the guy is digging for his ID is to put his hand on his gun.
I know the initial reaction is going to be "see he just wanted to shoot him. Was itching to take out that gun." I think that's probably a little too much all or nothing thinking.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:32 pm to OldManRiver
quote:
Where the bigger issue lies IMO is how they got to that point. The guy opens the door at :38 in the video. By the 2:20 mark the cop has his hand on his gun, and at 2:29 reaches in and starts to drag the guy out. Less than 2 minutes of interaction, the majority of the time both of the suspects hands are in plain view and empty.
The fact that the cop felt the need to physically take down an unarmed guy sitting in his mom's car after talking to him for less than 2 minutes is the real problem here. There was absolutely no visible reason why it had to go that direction that fast
I would be interested to hear an attorney's perspective regarding probable cause in this case. That's really legally what it comes down to.
Are somewhat evasive answers to an officers question (kinda forgot brothers name, wasn't sure if he had a weapon) coupled with the putting of something in his mouth consistent with what would be legal probable cause for a search like that. I honestly don't know.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:32 pm to dupergreenie
quote:
However he did nothing to lower his chances of not getting shot.
Bro I shouldn’t have to do things to “lower my chances of getting shot” FFS. Yeah, I get it is not wise to “resist” cops, but I should not have to go above and beyond to prove I did nothing wrong.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:35 pm to dupergreenie
quote:
If you watched the video the guy was acting sketchy...couldn't remember his brothers name....looked like he put something in his mouth....resisted after cops said to stop resisting....
BS. Said he was victimized by cops before - ever called your kids by your dog’s name when you were in a hurry?
You get shot for putting something in your mouth?
I love the “stop resisting” crap. Cop yanks him out of a car, wrestles him to the ground and acts like the guy is putting up a fight.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:36 pm to JiminyCricket
And I think you are the typical bootlicker.
Grabbing a guy with zero warning and throwing him on the ground, while placing yourself on top of him, and then saying "stop resisting" is ridiculous. Maybe you'd just lay there. I'm guessing you would let him frick your mother as well as long as he has his uniform on.,
Hell, the kid even said he's had cops play the "stop resisting" game with him before. They are all trained to do it. Have seen it myself when taking a guy out of a bar. They pulled up on the cuffs, your arms don't bend that way, and shouted "stop resisting" at the guy.
Grabbing a guy with zero warning and throwing him on the ground, while placing yourself on top of him, and then saying "stop resisting" is ridiculous. Maybe you'd just lay there. I'm guessing you would let him frick your mother as well as long as he has his uniform on.,
Hell, the kid even said he's had cops play the "stop resisting" game with him before. They are all trained to do it. Have seen it myself when taking a guy out of a bar. They pulled up on the cuffs, your arms don't bend that way, and shouted "stop resisting" at the guy.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:36 pm to OldManRiver
quote:
an unarmed guy sitting in his mom's car after talking to him for less than 2 minutes
Cop didn't know that he was unarmed and who cares if it was his moms car orthe fricking popes car. The guy gave away that he had history with cops and that he resisted before (go back and listen to why he said that he doesn't like cops) so that probably put the cop on high alert along with the dudes other sketchy answers.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:36 pm to OldManRiver
The guy is shot at minute 3 of the video and for the remainder of the video no medical aid was given which was four minutes. The cops just look at the dude and let him die. How anyone can approve of what that cop did is beyond me.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:39 pm to TheDeathValley
quote:
Yeah, I get it is not wise to “resist” cops,
Cut and print.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:39 pm to Pvt Hudson
quote:
You get shot for putting something in your mouth?
You're asking the wrong question. The real question here is two fold.
1)Did his behavior and putting something in his mouth give the officer legally compliant probable cause to detain him for search. If it does or doesn't I really don't know.
2) Did the guy grab the officers gun.
If in option #1 the cop really didn't have probable cause, I think he's at least partially liable.
If in option #2 the officer was within his right AND ward tried to grab his gun, then there really isn't a case here.
To say he was shot because he out something in his mouth is a bit of a misrepresentation of the nuance of the encounter.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:40 pm to broadhead
quote:
The guy is shot at minute 3 of the video and for the remainder of the video no medical aid was given which was four minutes. The cops just look at the dude and let him die. How anyone can approve of what that cop did is beyond me.
That part to me looks indefensible. IDK if the cops are legally required to give aid but as a human being, that's hard to rationalize not at least putting pressure on the wound.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:41 pm to Pvt Hudson
quote:
acts like the guy is putting up a fight.
He obviously is putting up a fight if you watch the video. Watch it again.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:42 pm to dupergreenie
quote:
It amazes me how people fight with cops....get shot and people blame the cops.
It amazes me how people don't understand human nature in this situation. One minute you're sitting in your car and talking to a guy. The next minute that same guy, without warning, violently pulls you out of the car and to the ground, you're first instinct is going to be to fight back. Even more so if you're tweaking.
The victim did nothing that warranted the police to escalate the situation like they did.
My opinion, anyways.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:42 pm to John88
A 32yr old was being picked up by his mother at middle school?
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:42 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
And I think you are the typical bootlicker.
How is asking about if the cop had the legal right to detain him bootlicking?
What if he did have the legal right? Then we can have the discussion on if that law should be re-evaluated and changed. But that's not good enough for you. You just throw out ad hominem attacks because someone simply dares to ask a question or two.
Not one time in this thread have I said the cops should get off.
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:45 pm to JiminyCricket
quote:
That part to me looks indefensible. IDK if the cops are legally required to give aid but as a human being, that's hard to rationalize not at least putting pressure on the wound.
I agree that they should have provided aid, but he was shot center mass. He wasn't surviving that.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:45 pm to OldManRiver
quote:
the majority of the time both of the suspects hands are in plain view and empty.
Watch the video again. At around the 2:26 part of the video, the guy puts his right hand in his pocket and starts digging when the cop has just asked him if he has any weapons. The guy doesn't answer. Shortly after, both of his hands are out of plain view. With everything you've seen recently, you don't understand why an officer might put his hand on his weapon when he has asked about a weapon, the person refuses to answer, and he starts digging in his pockets with both hands out of view?
quote:
The fact that the cop felt the need to physically take down an unarmed guy
The officer knew he was unarmed how?
I'm always a bit amazed how people that never put themselves in harms way can Monday morning QB something like this. There is no way he could have been certain that the person was unarmed. Watch and listen to the video.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 1:46 pm to JiminyCricket
quote:
The only part that would imo warrant lethal force is if he indeed did attempt to take the officers gun. From the video though, we can't see to tell for sure.
Not just going for the gun, but any attempt at injury that could incapacitate the officer. It’s reasonable to believe that if you are rendered unconscious or unable to defend yourself, your assailant will then be able to take your gun and use it against you. Officers are not just concerned about keeping their gun, but with keeping their consciousness and their ability to continue defending themselves from whoever is fighting with them.
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