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re: Catholics to excommunicate priests who follows Washington law about reporting child abuse
Posted on 5/7/25 at 1:39 pm to Sterling Archer
Posted on 5/7/25 at 1:39 pm to Sterling Archer
Global corporations must follow the local laws in the countries in which they operate.
Catholic, Inc included.
Catholic, Inc included.
0
Posted on 5/7/25 at 1:44 pm to STEVED00
The law is about mandatory reporting. Basically you gain knowledge of abuse, file a report with some information about the victim and alleged abuser, and the state investigates.
I could be wrong, but it seems like actual questioning (in court or otherwise) would still be protected by privilege under this law.
So if I understand correctly, they are required to report any suspected abuse for the state to investigate further, but can’t necessarily be directly questioned about the privileged statements that led to that suspicion.
.. I think, anyway.
I could be wrong, but it seems like actual questioning (in court or otherwise) would still be protected by privilege under this law.
So if I understand correctly, they are required to report any suspected abuse for the state to investigate further, but can’t necessarily be directly questioned about the privileged statements that led to that suspicion.
.. I think, anyway.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 1:45 pm to Party At LSU
quote:
Party At LSU
The whole faith/ works thing is tired. It's basically just a semantics argument based on how you define the terms faith and works. I like how Pope Benedict XVI puts it:
quote:
Being “just” simply means being with Christ and in Christ. And this suffices. Further observances are no longer necessary. For this reason Luther’s phrase: “faith alone” is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love. Faith is looking at Christ, entrusting oneself to Christ, being united to Christ, conformed to Christ, to his life. And the form, the life of Christ, is love; hence to believe is to conform to Christ and to enter into his love. So it is that in the Letter to the Galatians in which he primarily developed his teaching on justification St Paul speaks of faith that works through love
Posted on 5/7/25 at 1:51 pm to Ingeniero
quote:
This is coming about because the Washington government enacted a law requiring clergy to disclose abuse if it's revealed in confession. The Church will not allow ANYTHING to be disclosed if it was revealed in confession, not just child abuse. WA is forcing their hand on this, it's not that the Church is specifically choosing to defend abusers.
I get that, but as it relates specifically to child abuse, the Catholic Church has a lot of ground to cover to makeup for its past abuses and coverups.
If protecting children from abusers, or bringing abusers to justice is as important to us as we claim, then this is a no brainer to me. The Catholic Church has exhausted the goodwill of trust many put into it for years.
“We don’t allow priests to divulge confessionals because that’s our doctrine” doesn’t pass muster for child abuse and it shouldn’t.
quote:
Would we be ok if the government required priests turn in a list of people who cheat on their taxes?
Are you really trying to draw an equivalence between a tax cheat and a child abuser? Bad look if so.
quote:
Is it ok if California gets rid of attorney-client privilege and makes your lawyer tell the court if you committed the crime or not?
I’m not an attorney, but I suspect there are instances when the state can compel an attorney to break privilege. It’s a strong privilege but it’s not iron clad. I’ll let the attorneys on the board weigh in on the particulars.
But yes, in cases of child abuse, I would generally support the state compelling either attorneys or priests to break privilege.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 1:52 pm to Sterling Archer
quote:
These people are the scum of the earth
Which "these people" are you talking about? Because unless you are talking about the Dem legislature that passed and Dem governor that signed this blatantly unconstitutional law, you are mistaken.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 1:54 pm to The Boat
quote:
The church requires you to go through a "vessel". That's not saying a priest can forgive but is a requirement for your forgiveness.
You're just being obtuse now.
I'm out.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 2:03 pm to ibldprplgld
quote:
Are you really trying to draw an equivalence between a tax cheat and a child abuser? Bad look if so.
Make an equivalence, no. Point out that it's a bad idea for the government to start determining which crimes a priest is compelled to break the seal of confession for, yes. Why not rape and murder? Is the church shielding rapists and murderers if priests aren't required to divulge those? What about states where abortion is illegal? If a woman confesses that, should the priest be required to turn her in to the police?
Posted on 5/7/25 at 2:09 pm to Ingeniero
So you would support a priest honoring church doctrine and keeping quiet even if it allowed a child abuser to go without justice or worse, potentially continuing abuse on more children?
Posted on 5/7/25 at 2:27 pm to ibldprplgld
Don't pretend like this is an actual scenario. If an abuse knows a priest will break the seal, he won't go to confession.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 2:30 pm to Sterling Archer
quote:
U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has opened a civil rights investigation into whether the law violates the First Amendment.
I doubt the law will stand, heck there are like half dozen Catholics on the Supreme Court
Posted on 5/7/25 at 2:31 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Priests have never been able to reveal what they're told in the confessional.
bullshite. They may not have been supposed to do it but nothing happened when they did.
No matter how or when a person hears of serious allegations of a child being abused that person has the moral obligation to society to report it to some authority. Hiding behind some make believe oath of silence is almost as bad as abusing the child yourself....
Posted on 5/7/25 at 2:33 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
They may not have been supposed to do it but nothing happened when they did.
It’s automatic excommunication. What are you talking about?
quote:
No matter how or when a person hears of serious allegations of a child being abused that person has the moral obligation to society to report it to some authority. Hiding behind some make believe oath of silence is almost as bad as abusing the child yourself....
It’s Canon Law. Nothing disclosed during confession is allowed to be disclosed by the priest. Have some broken that seal? Sure. But the Church does not allow it under any circumstance.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 2:34 pm to LSUJuice
quote:
Don't pretend like this is an actual scenario. If an abuse knows a priest will break the seal, he won't go to confession.
Well yeah most of the abusers in this scenario are the priests. So its just the spiderman meme
Posted on 5/7/25 at 2:38 pm to ibldprplgld
quote:
So you would support a priest honoring church doctrine and keeping quiet even if it allowed a child abuser to go without justice or worse, potentially continuing abuse on more children?
Yes
I don't consider this a gotcha because I'd say the same thing if you replaced the child abuse scenario with any other crime. What if someone's going to murder more, rape more, etc. If we're to treat confession as a sacrament that is totally sealed, it has to stay that way no matter the circumstances. Like others have said, someone who is confessing must be penitent and their penance would be to face justice and "sin no more." This law is just a way to target Catholic priests. Hell, a lot of the time confession is anonymous. Is the priest violating the law if he doesn't break through the screen and find out who he's talking to?
Posted on 5/7/25 at 2:41 pm to Sterling Archer
You are very ignorant or stupid. Hard to tell.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 4:23 pm to Ingeniero
Edit: wrong thread
This post was edited on 5/7/25 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 5/7/25 at 4:54 pm to CapitalTiger
Guess the priest who told me this was lying then.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 5:36 pm to TheFitfulFire
poliboard has basically become 50/50 Nazis or anti-Catholic bigots.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 6:13 pm to schexyoung
quote:
You are very ignorant or stupid. Hard to
Ok pedo protector
Posted on 5/7/25 at 8:21 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:I agree, but not because of the religious views of the justices. It is because this is a clear issue of free expression of religion for the people involved. My bet is that this Washington state initiative will be found unconstitutional.
I doubt the law will stand, heck there are like half dozen Catholics on the Supreme Court
Not a fan, but it is the correct ruling from the standpoint of our legal traditions.
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