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re: Catholic priest criticised teenager who killed himself at his own funeral
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:55 am to RollTide1987
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:55 am to RollTide1987
quote:
If they intentionally do it to end their life? Then yeah. The gates are barred. But you and I both know that very few people actually do that. It's like smoking. They know there's a chance their habit will kill them but they aren't intentionally trying to die.
They intentionally do it knowing it will end their life.
Furthermore, a priest that abuses a child is intentional and way worse than a depressed child that commits suicide but the good news is the church makes the rules. How convenient.
I’m sure the family could just cut a check to the church and the gates would magically open for their child.
1
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:55 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
Christians believe in repentance of sin is a one way ticket into Heaven.
It's difficult to repent when you're dead. That's why Christian theology teaches that most people who commit suicide are likely barred from entering the Kingdom of Heaven.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:57 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Why?
Well, Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God and source of doctrine. The fact that you would ask why someone would want Biblical confirmation tells me a lot.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:58 am to BowDownToLSU
Not sure where the outrage comes from when you go to a Catholic Church which has a very strong stance on suicide and then get upset when they preach it.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:59 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:quote:
Screw that priest.
For telling the truth?
For not telling the truth when he met with the family.
quote:
Father Don LaCuesta to lead their son Maison’s funeral after they met him and trusted him to deliver a compassionate and respectful sermon celebrating “how Maison lived, not how he died”.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:59 am to tankyank13
quote:
Many parts of the Bible condemn it
Start with Matthew 22:39
“Love your neighbor as yourself” is a condemnation for suicide? Come on, man.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:01 am to udtiger
quote:
Hate to tell them, but suicide is a mortal sin and as there is no chance for absolution through confession,
That is not the official stance of the Catholic Church
The funny thing with religious people is most of them aren't familiar with their own doctrine
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:01 am to dsides
quote:
They intentionally do it knowing it will end their life.
There's no possible way of knowing if the fry they are about to put in their mouth or the cigarette they are about to light up will be the one that gives them that fatal heart attack. But if I were to put a gun in my mouth, I know that when I pull the trigger it will most likely end my life.
quote:
Furthermore, a priest that abuses a child is intentional and way worse than a depressed child that commits suicide but the good news is the church makes the rules. How convenient.
You're confusing the actions of man with spiritual doctrine and dogma. I believe it was Jesus himself who, while speaking of the Jewish elders, told his followers to do as they say and not as they do. For while they were sinful because they were men, they carried with them the doctrinal authority of the Father in Heaven.
There is no excuse for what some priests have been doing to these young boys. I was an altar serve for many years and when these stories began to come out all I could think of was how thankful I was that nothing like that ever happened to me. The priests who show no remorse or repentance for what they did will perish just as surely as someone who knowingly committed suicide.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:02 am to RollTide1987
quote:
It's difficult to repent when you're dead. That's why Christian theology teaches that most people who commit suicide are likely barred from entering the Kingdom of Heaven.
Who decided that repentance is strictly limited to your life on earth?
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:07 am to BowDownToLSU
Whether I agree with it or not it is irrelevant. It is what the Catholic church teaches and whoever hired that priest to preside over his funeral knew those things or if they did not are idiots and should not have hire a Catholic priest. His parents hired a Catholic priest for a reason and you can't pick and choose how catholic you want your priest to be.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:07 am to RollTide1987
quote:
It's difficult to repent when you're dead
No question. There's even the story of The Rich Man and Lazarus which seems to suggest that repentance after death is a possible feeling but not a feeling that has any bearing on your soul.
quote:
That's why Christian theology teaches that most people who commit suicide are likely barred from entering the Kingdom of Heaven.
I understand this. What I'm saying is the wording used above does leave some room for an unusual circumstance for which there is no specific teaching.
That is: in the time between the act of killing yourself and your death, you truly realize you did wrong and truly are sorry and think to ask for forgiveness, it would stand to reason that you could very well wind up in Heaven.
The odds of that scenario happening are probably pretty darn low, and I would probably caution with a "don't try this at home." But I think that is what is being hinted at in the words in the OP, assuming they are a quote and happened.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:08 am to RollTide1987
Mark 3:28-29
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:09 am to JohnnyKilroy
God creates someone who suffers so badly on this earth that they can't take it anymore and end their life, and then God tortures them for ALL OF ETERNITY!!
Seems reasonable.
Seems reasonable.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:20 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Romans 8:38-39 New International Version (NIV) 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Go ahead and downvote Catholics who would rather believe a priest than the word of God.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:23 am to BowDownToLSU
The people ITT defending this priest and doctrine is laughable.
Self-murder
If I jerk off am I committing adultery against my wife?
What about people that get cancer and refuse treatment? Is that suicide?
The reason the church doesn't want you to die is because you can no longer give money to them.
Self-murder
If I jerk off am I committing adultery against my wife?
What about people that get cancer and refuse treatment? Is that suicide?
The reason the church doesn't want you to die is because you can no longer give money to them.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:25 am to Powerman
quote:
That is not the official stance of the Catholic Church
The funny thing with religious people is most of them aren't familiar with their own doctrine
That moron doubled and tripled down even after the actual teachings were posted. Pretty comical.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:29 am to udtiger
quote:
Hate to tell them, but suicide is a mortal sin and as there is no chance for absolution through confession, it is the teaching of the Church that the gates of Heaven are barred.
Frankly, I am amazed they even allow suicides to have Catholic funerals.
Completely false. A mortal sin requires 3 conditions: 1. For it to be of a grave matter
2. You must have full knowledge that it is a sin
3. It must’ve be commuted with complete and deliberate consent.
Sometimes suicide can be a mortal sin.. an example would be people killing themselves to avoid suffering or killing themselves because they lost money or something like that.
Sometimes a person can be depressed and they wouldn’t have complete or deliberate consent because their disease (chemical imbalance) caused them to commit suicide completely against their rational will.
This priest was definitely a jackass. He is supposed to be charitable and still speak truth. The truth is we don’t know the kid’s destination and we don’t know anyone’s fate. That is for God to judge.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:44 am to OysterPoBoy
Yeah, it’s right there in John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life, as long as you don’t commit suicide.
Right?
Right?
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life, as long as you don’t commit suicide.
Right?
Right?
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:51 am to udtiger
quote:
Well...thems is the rules.
Meh, a lot of Catholic dogma directly contradicts the professed mission of the Church and teachings of Christ.
I’m close to a few priest and I’ve had one tell me privately that, in his view, the entire concept of hell runs counter to the idea of an omnipotent and loving God professed by the Church.
I don’t get bogged down in dogma.
Posted on 12/16/18 at 11:55 am to Moustache
quote:
The truth is we don’t know the kid’s destination and we don’t know anyone’s fate. That is for God to judge.
And the priest never once said their son was in Hell. He said that his actions might have blocked their son from entering Heaven. I don't agree with how this priest behaved at the funeral mass. A priest's job is to comfort the survivors and to help them make sense of it all. When I was 25, a friend of mine committed suicide and was given a funeral mass. The ceremony was beautiful and was a celebration of her life. We all prayed for her soul and the word "suicide" never came up. She suffered from bi-polar disorder and depression and one day it all became too much for her.
I can't say with certainty that her actions damned her for eternity. I believe in a merciful God and like to think that He showed my friend's soul mercy as she was suffering through mental illness. But there is no way of ever knowing for sure.
I digress. Bottom line, what this priest did was wrong. But he wasn't lying to them. He told the truth by delivering a fire and brimstone sermon about the nature of suicide. I just feel like he chose the wrong moment to deliver it.
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