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Message
re: Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:46 pm to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:46 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
First, I have a bachelors in biology with a minor in microbiology and a masters in biology. I have at least some clue what I'm talking about.
Second, evolution at its core consists of genetic mutations and gene duplications being selected for or against based on an organisms environment and capability to survive and reproduce. The same genetic changes and selection process that allow bacteria to become resistance to antibiotics are the ones that, over long periods of time, allow for speciation events and branches in the evolutionary tree.
Guesses and suppositions. There's no evidence, no support, that the complexity and variety of life is in any way related to bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics, using your example.
There's no evidence, proof, for Darwinian evolution. None.
quote:
Third, we absolutely have observed macroevolution (not that we need to, genetics and microbiology provide nearly limitless data on evolution). For example, we have very clearly observed speciation events between salamanders who have been separated by the human development in California and are now so different they can no longer interbreed despite being able to do so in the lifetime of many on this board.
And those salamanders evolved into....something other than salamanders? That's like Darwin's finches evolving into something other than finches . Both are evidence for micro evolution, but aren't evidence for Darwinian, macro, evolution.
7
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:47 pm to beejon
And you have no and have never had any proof of a supernatural god
Just saying
Just saying
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:47 pm to Turkey_Creek_Tiger
quote:
my disbelief in a God has nothing to do with science but with logic.
Nice edit.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:48 pm to beejon
quote:
And those salamanders evolved into....something other than salamanders? That's like Darwin's finches evolving into something other than finches . Both are evidence for micro evolution, but aren't evidence for Darwinian, macro, evolution.
Aren't those the same thing, just on a continuum?
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:49 pm to beejon
quote:
Guesses and suppositions
Boom! There it is!
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:50 pm to Patron Saint
quote:
Nice edit.
the sentence just sounded incomplete
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:50 pm to beejon
quote:
There's no evidence, proof, for Darwinian evolution. None.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:51 pm to Turkey_Creek_Tiger
quote:
Where did God come from?
Isn't time just a dimension like space? So the universe has to go on forever. If there's a brick wall at the end of the universe, I want to know what is on the other side of the brick wall. The same with time. God exists outside of time. The question "Who made God" is as ludicrous as thinking there's a "the end" sign hanging on the brick wall at the edge of the universe. This is all unless, of course, you believe the universe is still being created today, in which case I suggest you catch the maker in the act.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:51 pm to beejon
ring species of the sierra madres
ring species of the Himalayan plateaus
marsupial mammals of australia
cecal valves in wall lizards
1000's of plant speciations available on talkorigins.org
nylonase
erv loci in humans and apes
myh16 gene mutation in apes leading to larger brain capacity of eventual humans
lacking genetic diversity of mammalian populations due to genetic bottleneck cause by supervolcano
and btw the elephant pine tree thing would be a falsifier of evolution. it is exactly what we wouldnt expect to find.
ring species of the Himalayan plateaus
marsupial mammals of australia
cecal valves in wall lizards
1000's of plant speciations available on talkorigins.org
nylonase
erv loci in humans and apes
myh16 gene mutation in apes leading to larger brain capacity of eventual humans
lacking genetic diversity of mammalian populations due to genetic bottleneck cause by supervolcano
and btw the elephant pine tree thing would be a falsifier of evolution. it is exactly what we wouldnt expect to find.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:53 pm to beejon
quote:
Guesses and suppositions.
Not this again. Beejon, people had forgotten about the last thread..why do you start this again?
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:53 pm to Cruiserhog
Get that liberal science commy shite out here
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:53 pm to beejon
I like your arguments, but whether or not macro evolution exists is ultimately of little significance to creationism
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:54 pm to beejon
quote:
And those salamanders evolved into....something other than salamanders? That's like Darwin's finches evolving into something other than finches . Both are evidence for micro evolution, but aren't evidence for Darwinian, macro, evolution.
Ah, the "kinds" argument.
You asked for speciation, I gave you speciation. It's all a spectrum of change. How much change is required for you to believe in evolution?
By taxonomic rank, those salamanders are as different as dogs and wolves.
The problem is that you simply have no clue how taxonomy works and thus come up with convoluated and inconsistent definitions of "kinds" of animals that make absolutely no scientific sense.
Finally, your ultimate point, that we cant "observe" a change so dramatic as a salamander to say an alligator, is simply asking for something that evolution does not claim. You are asking for something that would directly contradict evolution, massive change over a short time period.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:54 pm to The Calvin
quote:
Get that liberal science commy shite out here
all i want is a beejon guesses and suppositions quote and im out
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:55 pm to beejon
quote:
Guesses and suppositions. There's no evidence, no support, that the complexity and variety of life is in any way related to bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics, using your example.
That is at the very core of evolution. It's the same mechanism.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:56 pm to Roger Klarvin
So in the final analysis, your points are as difficult to prove as Gods existence
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:56 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Third, we absolutely have observed macroevolution (not that we need to, genetics and microbiology provide nearly limitless data on evolution). For example, we have very clearly observed speciation events between salamanders who have been separated by the human development in California and are now so different they can no longer interbreed despite being able to do so in the lifetime of many on this board.
Doesn't matter. I've explained ring species to him before. He wants a bryophyte to turn into a mouse. You know this, but evolution is the change in allele frequency in a population over time. Change from one species to another doesn't occur at the individual level like they think it does. This is why you will never show him what he wants; that's not what actually happens.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:57 pm to Huck Finn
Gerald schroder and his lecture "science of god" is a great free video
Posted on 2/4/14 at 8:58 pm to Tigerlaff
quote:
He wants a bryophyte to turn into a mouse
Ironically, this would actually DISPROVE evolution and most of what we know about genetics.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 9:00 pm to Cruiserhog
quote:
myh16 gene mutation in apes leading to larger brain capacity of eventual humans
One of my favorites. Absolutely astonishing stuff that gives us real tangible evidence that everything about us, from our critical thinking to our emotions to our morality, are simply the product of genetic manipulation.
frick I love science
This post was edited on 2/4/14 at 9:03 pm
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