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re: Back flooding and built up neighborhoods
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:13 am to statman34
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:13 am to statman34
To be devil's advocate,
Do you know the status of the drainage infrastructure in these areas that "never flooded before"? Most of Ascension Parish's issues with flooding come from poor drainage maintenance and limited means of water to flow out of the parish on the east side of the river. Until another diversion is made and ditches are cleared and properly maintained, we will continue to see "flooding in places that never flooded before". I know for a fact that some ditches that have been "cleared" since the flood in ascension parish are still basically ponds due to clogged or ineffective culverts.
ETA: But everyone keep clutching their pearls about developments.
Do you know the status of the drainage infrastructure in these areas that "never flooded before"? Most of Ascension Parish's issues with flooding come from poor drainage maintenance and limited means of water to flow out of the parish on the east side of the river. Until another diversion is made and ditches are cleared and properly maintained, we will continue to see "flooding in places that never flooded before". I know for a fact that some ditches that have been "cleared" since the flood in ascension parish are still basically ponds due to clogged or ineffective culverts.
ETA: But everyone keep clutching their pearls about developments.
This post was edited on 1/21/20 at 10:14 am
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:16 am to statman34
"rain runoff school" = hydrology. My books are 2 feet from me in my office,good classes for Louisiana. All the parishes want the new property tax and sales tax money. If you see a wooded area someone is thinking about developing it.
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:18 am to NYNolaguy1
Yea we used one of those models but like you said you need a lot of data. Ascension provided us with their entirety of GIS files from the past two decades, but that was just so much data we didn't even know what to do with it. Also contributing to the fact that none of really had too much of an idea much less training to develop that model we ended up i just had to modeling based on a recent development to "find" results in our alotted time.
This post was edited on 1/21/20 at 10:21 am
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:20 am to Monday
In Livingston and Ascension all bets are off, in my opinion. A lot of subdivisions (certainly not all but most) are under 30 or even 20 years old. There is not an established benchmark except for 2016 for most of the area there. I lived in Denham in 2016 and I always tried to see what my area was like in 1983 because I was worried about it. Of course, my worst fears came true as we got 33 inches of water in 2016. But my point is that some of the areas I am talking about are in EBR and have been around much longer and have a basis for comparison with major hurricanes and flooding events and they have never flooded before. That is where you can see the effects of new development moreso than those newer areas in other parishes in my opinion.
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:25 am to statman34
All I'm saying is that, in my opinion, you may not be seeing any effects of new development in these areas. Most of them are likely close to BFE already and when you add new roads (including surfacing of old roads) and drainage issues that aren't being taken care of properly you could wrongly deduce that new developments are why you see these new flooding events.
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:28 am to AtticusOSullivan
quote:
Some land is right below the flood plain, developers build land above flood plain elevation and Build on it. Why would they not be allowed to do this? As long as proper stormwater management infrastructure is put in place it shouldn't be an issue.
If you're building up a low lying area and water will no longer occupy that area it's gotta go somewhere and will obviously be a problem to someone else. Most places have ordinances/codes regulating the stormwater runoff from developments. I know in Lafayette Parish the requirement is the post construction runoff must be 85% or less than the preconstruction conditions. I would assume most Parishes have similar requirements, or if not they should adopt them imo.
The biggest problem with this is the requirements consider a 10 year design storm event. So when a 100 year storm happens the hydrology can behave very differently and cause problems for adjacent property owners
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:30 am to Bedhog
quote:m
How are developers being allowed to do this?
I’m sorry I thought this was America
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:33 am to mikelbr
quote:
I don't buy that b/c the developers don't 'BRING' in dirt to build up. Every development in the last 20 yrs has been required to dig out the dirt in the same area. They have formulas for it to not change water displacement. Keystone has ELEVEN ponds in that development.
Oh, they all have regs like that.
They only work if they're actually enforced and monitored.
They're pretty lax in STP.
Posted on 1/21/20 at 10:40 am to Monday
quote:
Do you know the status of the drainage infrastructure in these areas that "never flooded before"?
I know the main waterway for our flood plain, the Amite River, has not been properly maintained. It was last dredged by the Feds in the 50s and left for the parishes to maintain. But none have.
The river itself has less of a capacity; thus the same rain today would cause a higher river level than a major rain Event 60 years ago.
To address the problem, I believe it needs to be done ftom big to little.
Posted on 1/21/20 at 11:00 am to Bedhog
quote:i believe they put deep foundations in at the major columns on the building. but it wasnt a timber pile spread to consolidate that area like you have seen other places.
Do you remember if they drove pilings into the ground for foundation support like they did for the sherwin williams and the racetrac?
quote:see my above answer. they put in some type of deep foundation for the building. The overburden soil mound that put on for years in advance took care of the consolidation.
Do you remember if they drove pilings into the ground for foundation support like they did for the sherwin williams and the racetrac?
They didn’t.
This post was edited on 1/21/20 at 11:02 am
Posted on 1/21/20 at 11:06 am to mikelbr
quote:
I don't buy that b/c the developers don't 'BRING' in dirt to build up.

quote:they arent required to do that.....it is just more efficient to use the excavation material from your retention pond to build up the area you intend to build on.
Every development in the last 20 yrs has been required to dig out the dirt in the same area.
This post was edited on 1/21/20 at 11:07 am
Posted on 1/21/20 at 12:02 pm to CarRamrod
quote:
Every development in the last 20 yrs has been required to dig out the dirt in the same area.
quote:
they arent required to do that.....it is just more efficient to use the excavation material from your retention pond to build up the area you intend to build on.
He is correct for Baton Rouge except that he underestimated the time. Other Parishes have similar requirements, just not sure on the exact time they were enacted. BR Flood ordinance was enacted in 1987. It required homes to be built above the flood plain and all developments to mitigate their 100 year flood plain fill among other things. Someone explained it earlier, for every unit of dirt placed in the flood plain, a unit of dirt must be removed from the same floodplain. That is accomplished through ponds generally. Only the volume between the normal water surface and the previous natural ground counts towards that volume. Anything below the normal pool level does not count since that is always full of water so it stores no flood water. The area above the water to the top bank is known as freeboard where your volume is calculated.
Generally, in the great flood of 2016, those houses built after 1987 where fine. There were a few outliers that were along the Amite, Comite and Hurricane Creek due to the fact that those basins experienced the full force of the 33" of rain and 500 year (0.2% chance) flood. Also, those house built pre-war time were also fine since they were built on high ground. Houses built between the 50's and 1987 were generally the ones that flooded. That is because those developments were not required to be built above the 100 year flood elevation, did not provide detention, did not provide fill mitigation and were built in flood plains. So actually, the older developments are the ones that have contributed to flooding.
Finally, the Sanctuary (Tiger Bend), The Willows (Burbank) and other new developments mentioned in this thread are not the cause of flooding.
Posted on 1/21/20 at 12:07 pm to LSUengr
quote:
Finally, the Sanctuary (Tiger Bend), The Willows (Burbank) and other new developments mentioned in this thread are not the cause of flooding.
I agree
How much of the flooding can be contributed to the lack of dredging and maintenance of the Amite and it’s major tributaries?
Posted on 1/21/20 at 12:19 pm to Bedhog
I thought they updated the codes to say any fill dirt that is used to build up house’s or neighborhoods have to come from the plot of the neighborhood. That way it would mitigate the effects of building up the houses by giving the area a storm basin.
Posted on 1/21/20 at 12:31 pm to Miketheseventh
quote:
I thought they updated the codes to say any fill dirt that is used to build up house’s or neighborhoods have to come from the plot of the neighborhood. That way it would mitigate the effects of building up the houses by giving the area a storm basin.
They have. As I listed above, BR did it in 1987. Ascension did it sometime in the early 2000's and have recently tightened it. Don't know about Livingston. Some of the more developed florida parishes have similar requirements but not sure of the timeline of when those were adopted. St. Tammany and Tangipahoa have some of the more stricter requirements in south LA pertaining to stormwater.
Posted on 1/21/20 at 12:34 pm to Bedhog
quote:
How are developers being allowed to do this?

Posted on 1/21/20 at 12:35 pm to CarRamrod
Scrape the topsoil off, dump a few inches of red dirt, stake it and pour it.
It'll pass "inspection", no problem.
It'll pass "inspection", no problem.

Posted on 1/21/20 at 12:48 pm to Bedhog
quote:
No, I think there should be no new development in an area that flooded.
I’m sorry, I thought this was a free country
Posted on 1/21/20 at 1:04 pm to LSUengr
quote:
Finally, the Sanctuary (Tiger Bend), The Willows (Burbank) and other new developments mentioned in this thread are not the cause of flooding.
Of course they aren't....but will they cause flooding to the areas surrounding them that havent flooded in the past 50 years or more?
The land that the Sanctuary is being developed on has flooded for the 30 years I have been living there....I guess all the new houses will scare the flood waters away
Posted on 1/21/20 at 1:16 pm to The Swindler
How will any development including the Sanctuary cause flooding if 100 year fill mitigation is done? If the entire property held 50 units of flood water before development, then by ordinance it must hold 50 units of flood water after development. Since BR actually enforces that ordinance, how do you think flooding is increased by development? The issue is the general public does not understand hydrology/hydraulics and doesn't actually want to take the time to understand it.
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