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re: Attended Catholic Church for the first time in a while and it wasn't the same
Posted on 12/26/18 at 2:35 pm to cbree88
Posted on 12/26/18 at 2:35 pm to cbree88
quote:
You really want the federal government to start doing stuff like this?
Welcome to communist Russia from the 20th century!! All our freedoms will be gone in no time.
What other freedoms do you enjoy that involve the systematic rape of children?
I'd likely be in favor of shutting those down, too.
1
Posted on 12/26/18 at 2:38 pm to troyt37
quote:
Right. Jesus was a man, but not really a man. He was a man without sin, without vice, without fault. Not so for John The Baptist, or Paul, or Luther, or anyone else you can name. They created their own religion. Each religion being a construct of a man, a sinner, a prideful, boastful, lustful, sometimes wicked, sometimes evil, man. Most certainly not a man in the sense that Jesus was a man.
You are describing why Catholics believe so firmly that they are the true church. If Jesus founded it, and he is God, shouldn’t we follow the Church that has been passed down since his life on earth? That’s the belief in a very black and white nutshell.
ETA: this is my best interpretation of my belief as a Catholic, I am not trying to sound like a jerk or demean anyone, just stating my understanding is all.
This post was edited on 12/26/18 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 12/26/18 at 2:39 pm to Clint Torres
quote:
It’s not much of an exaggeration to say that the Catholic Church is a machine, one of whose primary functions has been to ensure that children get raped and that the world doesn’t find out about it. This really is not an exaggeration.
This is a huge stretch here.
Posted on 12/26/18 at 2:44 pm to Clint Torres
I guess we’ll also have to shut down the enormous number of Catholic hospitals, shelters for the poor, pharmacies, soup kitchens, and other charities across the country and put that financial burden on our governments instead.
Be careful what you wish for and don’t bite the hand that feeds you, my friend.
Be careful what you wish for and don’t bite the hand that feeds you, my friend.
This post was edited on 12/26/18 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 12/26/18 at 2:45 pm to al_cajun
No diff than how I look at schools and teachers.
This post was edited on 12/26/18 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 12/26/18 at 2:47 pm to dgnx6
quote:
No diff than how I look at schools and teachers
Exactly. There are bad apples in every organization.
This post was edited on 12/26/18 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 12/26/18 at 2:50 pm to Scooba
This thread really is amazing. It's like alternating posts of rational thought followed by blind Catholic hatred. Some of you have seriously misguided thought processes. Makes me sad for you.
RATIONAL THOUGHT
BLIND CATHOLIC HATRED
RATIONAL THOUGHT
BLIND CATHOLIC HATRED
RATIONAL THOUGHT
BLIND CATHOLIC HATRED
RATIONAL THOUGHT
BLIND CATHOLIC HATRED
RATIONAL THOUGHT
BLIND CATHOLIC HATRED
RATIONAL THOUGHT
BLIND CATHOLIC HATRED
Posted on 12/26/18 at 2:51 pm to al_cajun
I know what you mean. I sat in the pew at the 4 o'clock anticipated Christmas Mass looking around to see if there was anyone there who looked like they were feeling strange about the recent news and the scandals. I especially looked at as many people's expressions as I could during the collection to see if any of them were thinking that the collection could be used to pay off abuse claim settlements.
Posted on 12/26/18 at 2:56 pm to JumpingTheShark
quote:
You are describing why Catholics believe so firmly that they are the true church. If Jesus founded it, and he is God, shouldn’t we follow the Church that has been passed down since his life on earth? That’s the belief in a very black and white nutshell.
ETA: this is my best interpretation of my belief as a Catholic, I am not trying to sound like a jerk or demean anyone, just stating my understanding is all.
It's Catholic dogma and doctrine that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is what it became upon Paul's invention, and centuries of dogma and doctrine were heaped upon it. Can anyone honestly say that Jesus would even recognize the church He supposedly founded?
You say it right here, but I bet you don't even realize it:
quote:
If Jesus founded it, and he is God, shouldn’t we follow the Church that has been passed down since his life on earth?
Just my opinion, but no. Following the Church is what allows for covering up things like sex scandals, and looking the other way as children are murdered in the womb. That's the corruption of man, the corruption of religion, standing between you, and the perfection of God.
Posted on 12/26/18 at 3:08 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
For all the talk about "the Church" and the bureaucracy of it all (which is big, no doubt), I think it always seems to help to remember that each parish, and each pastor, really is it's own little world.
There are some great, welcoming parishes with great pastors. There are some terrible, snobby parishes with terrible pastors. It's all about finding a fit.
The parish I currently attend, is somewhat smaller than average, but is very open, welcoming, and has a great young pastor. He's in his mid 30s, very traditionalist, and gives a homily that is easy to listen to and easy to relate to. He also isn't afraid to step away from the company line when need be, which has been refreshing to see.
All the sex scandals are terrible and huge news, but they really have nothing to do with the day to day of the church parish.
Yeah, I am not a religious man, but was born and raised in the Catholic church. Sometimes I go to mass for big day.. Well, I usually just go for Christmas. The parish I am in.. We use to have a priest who use to make mass as entertaining as it can possibly be. He would fill up the church.
Each of the Christmas masses they had to put extra chairs on both sides of the church and their would still be people standing up in the back.
He left and they brought in some other priest who is boring AF. The attendance has dropped off substantially. For Christmas eve 6PM mass, there was no one sitting in the extra seats. Everyone was in pews which was probably just over half way full.
As for as the day to day of the church parish. Each parish has it's core members who were not leaving over the sex scandals, etc.... But I do think a lot of members who were on the fence, the ones who didn't attend often.. Or questions things before, which overall hurt the church in terms of donations, etc... But yeah, there are still many "core members".
Posted on 12/26/18 at 3:11 pm to Scooba
quote:
I can’t make excuses for the church, but I find it ironic that people on here laud young students sleeping with teachers but outright condemn what’s happening in the church. Even more ignorant that some act as if this situation is only happening within the Catholic Church. I think it’s terrible, and I too question the use of my donations, but I don’t plan to leave Catholicism because of the decades old actions of a group of priests.
The issue is the Catholic Church has been proven to cover up the rapes, which in turn has led those priests to be able to hurt many more victims than they should have. Pedophiles aren’t a Catholic Church problem by themselves, but sweeping their crime under the rug is a huge problem with the Catholic Church
Posted on 12/26/18 at 3:17 pm to troyt37
quote:
Following the Church is what allows for covering up things like sex scandals, and looking the other way as children are murdered in the womb. That's the corruption of man, the corruption of religion, standing between you, and the perfection of God.
What was it Jesus said about the High Priests in Matthew's Gospel:
quote:
The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Pope Francis sits in the Chair of St. Peter, a chair established by Christ when He gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven - effectively making him and his successors the stewards to Christ's kingdom on Earth until His return. We are commanded by Christ to do what the Pope and the bishops tell us to do. But Christ also acknowledges their immorality and their penchant for corruption, so He also cautions us to not always follow their example.
Posted on 12/26/18 at 3:18 pm to OweO
quote:
Or questions things before,
As they should. There needs to be a lot of questions.
It's ok to have blind faith in the spirit of your religion, basic teachings, basic dogma, etc.
But that blind faith should not extend to church leaders, who are just as fallible as the rest of us.
I, along with many others, take some comfort in the fact that the vast majority of this terrible crimes were many years ago, and in most instances, the priests (and their enablers) are long away from the ministry, and in many cases, dead.
The church needs to atone and make it right. But, things that happened 40 years ago is a big difference from things that are happening today, or really, in the last 15 years.
Posted on 12/26/18 at 3:19 pm to Upperdecker
quote:
The issue is the Catholic Church had been proven to cover up the rapes
quote:
but sweeping their crime under the rug was a huge problem with the Catholic Church
Posted on 12/26/18 at 3:19 pm to Clint Torres
quote:
machine, one of whose primary functions has been to ensure that children get raped and that the world doesn’t find out about it.This really is not an exaggeration
quote:
Primary functions
quote:
This really is not an exaggeration
This is an exaggeration
Posted on 12/26/18 at 3:21 pm to Upperdecker
quote:
Doesn’t mean he needs to go to Catholic Church though. And I’m a Catholic, but I’m questioning whether I should stay with it or switch to another denomination
You'd just be trading one thing for another. You think other denominations are clean? You think they don't have scandals? You don't think they are hiding stuff away from their members that would completely floor them.
I am Catholic. I am as outraged as anyone about the child abuse scandal. But I also believe that my catholic faith isn't represented in the vatican. It's represented in jesus christ, his birth, life, and death, and resurrection. All for me. For everyone. I also realized not every church is complicent in a child sex abuse ring. I have recently started going back to church, mainly because my kids are in a catholic school. I am trying to open up my heart, and reestablish my faith. I have had several converstations with my local pastor, I have voiced my concerns about his boss (local bishop). I have vented to him about everthing that had pushed me away from my faith. I trust the guy, I trust his advice. I am trying to ride out the storm. But at the same time, I am not standing side by side with others who just bow their heads and ask how high when Francis says jump.
Posted on 12/26/18 at 3:27 pm to Kracka
quote:
You'd just be trading one thing for another. You think other denominations are clean? You think they don't have scandals? You don't think they are hiding stuff away from their members that would completely floor them.
Hiding? It's in plain sight. Some Catholic priests are better than others, but none of them are driving $75K cars and living in million dollar houses and flying gulfstreams.
The coverups the church did were awful and completely inexcusable, but they were done in a warped manner to protect the mother church. Whereas, in many of these religions, people are just trying to get rich.
Posted on 12/26/18 at 3:31 pm to Clint Torres
quote:
Imagine if there were a Fortune 500 company that was raping and abusing children for its entire existence, and systematically concealing it? What would we have done to that company?
Do you even hollywood bro?
Posted on 12/26/18 at 3:34 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Pope Francis sits in the Chair of St. Peter, a chair established by Christ when He gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven - effectively making him and his successors the stewards to Christ's kingdom on Earth until His return. We are commanded by Christ to do what the Pope and the bishops tell us to do. But Christ also acknowledges their immorality and their penchant for corruption, so He also cautions us to not always follow their example.
Sounds like a whole lot of doctrine there. Have to get back to you on the Matthew reference. Any reference for the rest of that?
Posted on 12/26/18 at 3:51 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
but they were done in a warped manner to protect the mother church. Whereas, in many of these religions, people are just trying to get rich.
Ok, so how much blame do you place at the feet of the parents who allowed this stuff to continue by taking hush money? Because to me, not only are they just as bad as the priests involved, they are in a way much much worse. Yet, nobody wants to talk about that.
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