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re: Arguably the greatest speech in American history was delivered 160 years ago today...
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:15 pm to crazy4lsu
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:15 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Well, if you are going to reduce things, every human conflict is about power and money.
I'm glad you finally understand the war was not explicitly about slavery.
The North wanted to control political power and the flow of money. The South wanted to trade cash crops. The South was paying for infrastructure in the North and was necessary for those corporate interests. Otherwise if the South was destitute and a financial drain, the North would have let them go.
Even today if the New England states wanted to secede, I welcome them to press forward with self determination.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:17 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
Tariff wars had been raging since the "Tariffs of Abomination" created an economic boom in the North and a decade long recession in the South.
& the Woolens Tariff before that contributed as well
quote:
Amid this tense atmosphere of sectionalism, a volcano erupted in Smith’s district. At a citizens’ meeting in 1827, Smith authored a memorial to the Congress protesting protectionism in general (labeled the “American System” by its supporters) and a proposed tariff on woolens in particular. “From the moderation of our Northern Brethren, who for the last ten years have been beating at our doors for monopolies,” announced Smith, “we have renounced all hope.” Smith argued that “free commerce is the true interest of every nation,” but that while the South supplied the bulk of American exports, she also paid the bulk in federal taxes, most of which was redistributed to the North as so-called internal improvements. “It is immaterial whether that money is received by one man called a King or by thousands termed Manufacturers.” Smith closed with a veiled threat of resistance if the unconstitutional and exploitative tariff were not abandoned. “Do not add oppression to embarrassment, and alienate our affections from the home our fathers together raised,” warned Smith. “Do not believe us degenerate from our sires, and that we will either bear or dare less, when the time for suffering or resistance comes.” The Woolens Tariff was defeated, but the next year, in response to the Tariff of Abominations – a much more comprehensive tax increase
Quote from Robert Barnwell Smith/Rhett
Abbeville
This post was edited on 11/19/23 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:19 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:m
given how the South actually behaved when the slaves were actually freed.
Ahh. The dreaded South. Go ask Malcolm X what he thought about the North. Bunch of back stabbing hypocrites. Lincoln cared about slaves because it hindered the North to compete with the South should they secede. Get a clue
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:20 pm to Cuz413
quote:
I'm glad you finally understand the war was not explicitly about slavery.
What? You just suggested implicit causes. Do you know what words mean? Because it seems like you need a primer.
quote:
The North wanted to control political power and the flow of money. The South wanted to trade cash crops. The South was paying for infrastructure in the North and was necessary for those corporate interests. Otherwise if the South was destitute and a financial drain, the North would have let them go.
I don't think this is accurate. What infrastructure was paid for by the South in the North? What corporate interests? Produce some receipts for once.
quote:
Even today if the New England states wanted to secede, I welcome them to press forward with self determination.
Well yeah, you would, because you have a romantic view of secession in your head. You aren't living in reality. But obviously, you have 'seceded in the mind' from the US, so I guess you have that going for you.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:21 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
many historians as the greatest political speech in American history.
It’s not. The first 2 paragraphs are solid, the 3rd is just rambling.
Reagan’s We Must Fight speech is way better
LINK
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:22 pm to dsides
quote:
Ahh. The dreaded South
Yeah. The immediate post-CW violence against black people is completely ignored by you retards. Should I start listing the reprisals one by one?
quote:
Go ask Malcolm X what he thought about the North.
It's always the same with you retards. We are talking about the Civil War. Why do you need to reference Malcolm X? Are his views supposed to be dispositive of the entirety of black people or something?
quote:
Lincoln cared about slaves because it hindered the North to compete with the South should they secede. Get a clue
You should get a clue. Given the state of post-CW violence, it seems like the average Southerner wanted to keep slaves and do everything they could to keep them enslaved. Maybe your forefathers shouldn't have been massive cucks.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:25 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
Hmm...interesting.
Why do you think Texas didn't mention the tariffs and rather said this?
Why do you think Texas didn't mention the tariffs and rather said this?
quote:
She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?
This post was edited on 11/19/23 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:25 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Should I start listing the reprisals one by one?
Yes
[img]t's always the same with you retards. We are talking about the Civil War. Why do you need to reference Malcolm X? Are his views supposed to be dispositive of the entirety of black people or something? [/img]
Because it’s indicative of the hypocrisy of the north. Try to keep up tard
[img] Given the state of post-CW violence, it seems like the average Southerner wanted to keep slaves and do everything they could to keep them enslaved.[/img]
Wrong
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:30 pm to dsides
quote:
Yes
My pleasure. I suppose you supported the lynching of six black men after they had the temerity to demand that a white landowner pay them for their work, such as occurred in Duplin County, North Carolina in 1865?
You definitely seem like the type who would support the lynching of 24 freed black men, women and children in Pine Bluff, Arkansas in March of 1866.
You also seem like you would relish the chance to beat up and kill black people, such as when white mobs killed 33 black people when they had the temerity of marching for voting rights in New Orleans in July 1866.
You definitely would have supported the killing of 7 black people who gathered in Camilla, Georgia in September of 1868.
The list goes on and on.
quote:
Because it’s indicative of the hypocrisy of the north. Try to keep up tard
Did the North try to suppress the black vote through violence after the CW?
quote:
Wrong
Nah I'm right.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:37 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
with a majority of Americans, were no fans of the institution of slavery
Your phone, your clothing, the precious metals in all your electronics, and most of your junk you buy on Amazon are all made by slaves you have no problem with. You just don’t have to see them so it’s easy to justify it
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:39 pm to Breesus
quote:
Your phone, your clothing, the precious metals in all your electronics, and most of your junk you buy on Amazon are all made by slaves you have no problem with. You just don’t have to see them so it’s easy to justify it
Is this supposed to be a justification for something? BTW I try to buy American-made things where I can.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:42 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Is this supposed to be a justification for something
No, I just find it funny when middle/upper class white people try and pretend they are better than the average person was 200 years ago because of the simple fact that 200 years have passed. Attempting to use the lens of today to judge the actions of the past in a vacuum is about the stupidest exercise you can engage in.
But please carry on screaming into the void.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:43 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
My pleasure
You are not a victim. You have agency. You can do it
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:44 pm to RollTide1987
Not arguable at all. Gettysburg address is the soul of America
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:45 pm to RollTide1987
He only wanted to preserve the Union and keep southern states in it.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:46 pm to Breesus
quote:
No, I just find it funny when middle/upper class white people try and pretend they are better than the average person was 200 years ago because of the simple fact that 200 years have passed. Attempting to use the lens of today to judge the actions of the past in a vacuum is about the stupidest exercise you can engage in.
You understand what you are endorsing is moral relativism, correct? And also you understand that there actually was a large group of Americans who vocally and sometimes violently did not support slavery? The abolition movement in the US itself, not elsewhere, present in the original 13 colonies. Of course, you just want to excuse your forefathers by pretending that abolition was some niche movement. By the standards of their own time, they would be regarded as morally corrupt. Of course, you wouldn't know that. What you want is to conflate things for the ease of your own conscience, I guess.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:46 pm to cypresstiger
quote:
Gettysburg address is the soul of America
The preamble to Declaration of Independence is the soul of America. This is inarguable. There is not a more powerful writing in modern human history concerning government:
quote:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.
The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:47 pm to Breesus
quote:
But please carry on screaming into the void
Tool has examples from decades ago ready to out the southern boogie man. Lives his life in the rear view mirror. Dude’s been conditioned to blame his sh*tty life on everyone but himself. Sad.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:47 pm to dsides
quote:
You are not a victim. You have agency. You can do it
I just did. You want all the examples of violence directed by white mobs towards black people in the immediate aftermath of the war? Because that is a long list.
Of course, you don't answer some of my own key questions, like the coward you are. Not surprising given that you support the CSA.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:49 pm to dsides
quote:
Tool has examples from decades ago ready to out the southern boogie man. Lives his life in the rear view mirror. Dude’s been conditioned to blame his sh*tty life on everyone but himself. Sad.
You dumb bitch, learn how to follow an argument. I was specifically referencing those events when I made it clear I was referring to the post-CW violence, which actually continued for nearly a century after the CW. Alas, following an argument isn't your strong suit.
My life is pretty dope, as I get to dunk on you absolutely retarded chuds all the time.
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