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re: Arguably the greatest speech in American history was delivered 160 years ago today...
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:28 pm to hashtag
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:28 pm to hashtag
quote:
correct. He chose what he thought was the quickest route to squash the South uprising. Not the most noble, not the most moral. The quickest.
It is easy to automatically be more 'moral' when your enemies explicitly endorse preserving a monumentally horrid institution.
1
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:28 pm to Cuz413
quote:and many owned slaves, even after the Civil War. But, shhh...can't speak truth in here.
Many in the North were against slavery in their states, nit because they were against slavery, they didn't want Black people in their state
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:29 pm to Cuz413
quote:
Keep assuming.
No assumption needed, my bitch.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:29 pm to RollTide1987
I prefer Teddy’s Man in the Ring speech. But he’s by far my favorite president so I’m biased
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:31 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
It is easy to automatically be more 'moral' when your enemies explicitly endorse preserving a monumentally horrid institution.
What was Lincoln's plan for the freed slaves in the South?
What does root, hog, or die mean to you?
Lincoln dgaf about the blacks in the South.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:33 pm to hashtag
quote:the one thing i could say about the confederates, its that they were by the far the most moral people ever
Not the most noble, not the most moral.
as long as you werent, you know
This post was edited on 11/19/23 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:35 pm to hashtag
quote:
and many owned slaves, even after the Civil War. But, shhh...can't speak truth in here.
How shocked do you believe they would be to know that Jim Crow laws started in Massachusetts and not in the South?
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:39 pm to Cuz413
quote:
What was Lincoln's plan for the freed slaves in the South?
How does that address my point that the people who formed the CSA explicitly endorsed the slavery as their reason? Even more, they reference Lincoln, such as in South Carolina's Articles of Secession where they say:
quote:
A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.
What an odd thing to say about a man who some mouth-breathers in this thread suggested wasn't anti-slavery?
quote:
Lincoln dgaf about the blacks in the South.
Not giving a frick in this case is better than the other option, which was perpetual enslavement of a group of people for no reason other than to make those specific landowners rich.
This post was edited on 11/19/23 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:40 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
It still won't change that slavery was the explicit reason why the South seceded,
Slavery was one of the last straws. Tariff wars had been raging since the "Tariffs of Abomination" created an economic boom in the North and a decade long recession in the South.
Virginia had voted to not join the secession until Lincoln started raising an army to "suppress the rebellion."
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:41 pm to Cuz413
Or that Delaware didn't ratify the 13th until 1901. (ib4, Mississippi didn't ratify until 1995).
Slavery was not as prevalent in the North as the South leading into the Civil War or after it. But, it was still present, especially outside of the New England area of the North.
Slavery was not as prevalent in the North as the South leading into the Civil War or after it. But, it was still present, especially outside of the New England area of the North.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:42 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
Slavery was one of the last straws.
It is the one that they mention explicitly, time and again, over and over, in the documentation. I'm not discounting that there was a structural clash between the agrarian political economy and the new liberal, industrialized one. I'm saying that the one that was endorsed repeatedly was slavery by the people who were doing the seceding.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:43 pm to RollTide1987
MacArthur's "Old soldiers never die" speech was better, IMO
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:52 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
What an odd thing to say about a man who some mouth-breathers in this thread suggested wasn't anti-slavery?
He wasn't pro slavery, but certainly wasn't some abolitionist ideologue you seem to think he was
quote:
Immediately following the attack, four more states -- Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina, and Tennessee -- severed their ties with the Union. To retain the loyalty of the remaining border states -- Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri -- President Lincoln insisted that the war was not about slavery or black rights; it was a war to preserve the Union. His words were not simply aimed at the loyal southern states, however -- most white northerners were not interested in fighting to free slaves or in giving rights to black people. For this reason, the government turned away African American voluteers who rushed to enlist. Lincoln upheld the laws barring blacks from the army, proving to northern whites that their race privilege would not be threatened.
Secession may have been over slavery, but the war was fought over power and money.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:53 pm to RollTide1987
Posted on 11/19/23 at 3:57 pm to crazy4lsu
I mean just because seceding states put it in the headline of there articles of secession doesn’t mean slavery was the main cause.
It’s the same with Hamas. Sure it says this in its constitutional preamble:
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it"
But what Hamas really wants is to redress freedom of movement for Palestinians, Jewish settlements in the West Bank and better access to international shipping for Gaza.
It’s the same with Hamas. Sure it says this in its constitutional preamble:
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it"
But what Hamas really wants is to redress freedom of movement for Palestinians, Jewish settlements in the West Bank and better access to international shipping for Gaza.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:01 pm to Cuz413
quote:
He wasn't pro slavery, but certainly wasn't some abolitionist ideologue you seem to think he was
Well, since I know what words mean, and since I didn't claim he was an abolitionist, I'm cool with that. The claim in this thread by one mouth-breather in particular was:
quote:
He wasn't opposed to slavery at all.
That is absolutely incorrect. That he used slavery as a political tool to meet his ultimate objectives is about a benign a claim as someone could make and also doesn't undermine the point that he was also anti-slavery.
quote:
Secession may have been over slavery, but the war was fought over power and money.
Well, if you are going to reduce things, every human conflict is about power and money. But the South's prevailing cause was slavery, a cause they made so explicit that they reference it directly. Why this should cause anyone consternation is another thing, given how the South actually behaved when the slaves were actually freed.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:02 pm to RollTide1987
That SOB freed the slaves tho.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:06 pm to RollTide1987
I make my poor kids suffer through what amounts to an American Seder on the 4th of July. Lincoln’s Gettysburg address and second inaugural are always part of the readings. Together they do succinctly tell the story of the civil war, and are the definition of eloquence.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:09 pm to crazy4lsu
Southerners couldn't farm, cook or do a damn thing without forcing someone to do it for them. It's interesting that folks hold southern aristocracy with high esteem.
My forefathers were poor dirt farmers in the midwest that did it without outside help.
My forefathers were poor dirt farmers in the midwest that did it without outside help.
This post was edited on 11/19/23 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 11/19/23 at 4:15 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
quote:if slavery was not to be abolished, would the war have happened?
anyone who thinks that slavery
This post was edited on 11/19/23 at 4:19 pm
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