re: Any OT Parents Refuse to Let Your Kids Celebrate Santa?

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The Treaty of Tripoli states very clearly that the US is not a christian nation.

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Yes, and that was a bit contentious after doing some reading on it. Also, that treaty was superceded by the Treaty of Peace and Amity signed on July 4, 1805 and that treaty did not have that phrase or derivation thereof in the treaty. So i think the argument of "well it was in a treaty" isn't very stable.

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I think Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, would all agree that our 1st amendment of our constitution, the freedom of speech, is not a basic christian belief.

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I didn't say it was. We can go through the constitution line by line, and the laws in today's society and point out what was based on Christian beliefs, and what was not. Neither of us would be proven right or wrong.

And i hope you are understanding that i'm not implying that the founders were establishing a religion, or that Christianity is our nation's religion, i'm not. My argument is that the principles of Christianity, shared by most if not all of the founders' was instrumental in the ideals of America.

I guess a better way of putting it is that ideals of Christianity were influential to the founders of this country, and its residual impact on our constitution is evident, at least to me.

Good discussion. Thanks for being civil.

Delvin Breaux is a Top 5 NFL corner, per latest stats.

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I'm not certain that you could. Unless these "Christian beliefs" are something I'm not familiar with. You could go through the constitution and point out where egalitarianism is important, democracy, fairness and some other virtues but none of those are highly regarded in Christian philosophy.

Jesus rarely spoke on governments or how they should be run. He mostly just said that they should not be held in higher regard than God.

The constitution couldn't be based on the bible because the bible was written two thousand years prior, societies change. If you tried to create a government based on a two thousand year old book, people would think you're insane.

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That is not what i'm insinuating at all.

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If I'm understanding you correctly, then you're saying the constitution was written by Christian men with Christian educations so their morals can be seen in their work on our laws?

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In general, yes. That's really all i'm saying.

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Gotcha, I kinda wish you weren't though. Some healthy debate could sure pass this slow arse work day.

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Well the internet here is creeping by, and i'm finishing some stuff up and then i'm off until next year, pretty much.

So i'm trying to keep my replies brief.

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My argument is that the principles of Christianity, shared by most if not all of the founders' was instrumental in the ideals of America.

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How so? No religious laws were established and the ethical code is not uniquely christian. We know that Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Thomas Paine, James Madison, and John Adams were all Diests. I'm just failing to see how the a conclusion can be drawn suggesting that our country is/was founded on christian principles.

I'm on your side bro, I was just trying to figure out where he was coming from.

This is simply not logical. People usually do not go on a crusade to prevent tragedies if it might pose a serious threat to either their own life or liberty.

You know there are areas where murder is common, but you do not travel to the inner city of Chicago to protect the victims.

You know there is shoplifting happening in every department store across America as I write this yet you are at home and not "doing something about it."

You know there are innocent people being executed by ISIS right this minute somewhere in the world yet you are not doing anything about it.

Your lack of doing anything about it does not mean you do not care or that you are not disgusted by it. The same with people who consider abortion murder of babies. You suggest that if he really thought it was murder then he would risk being imprisioned or even killed in taking a stand against the practice.

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This is simply not logical. People usually do not go on a crusade to prevent tragedies if it might pose a serious threat to either their own life or liberty.

You know there are areas where murder is common, but you do not travel to the inner city of Chicago to protect the victims.

You know there is shoplifting happening in every department store across America as I write this yet you are at home and not "doing something about it."

You know there are innocent people being executed by ISIS right this minute somewhere in the world yet you are not doing anything about it.

Your lack of doing anything about it does not mean you do not care or that you are not disgusted by it. The same with people who consider abortion murder of babies. You suggest that if he really thought it was murder then he would risk being imprisioned or even killed in taking a stand against the practice.

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bullshite. Abortion is sanctioned by the federal sovereign for which you fly the flag and to which you pay your taxes. THAT IS TO SAY, that the government is actively sanctioning the most immoral act conceivable: the holocaust of American babies.

The way we know you don't actually believe this is that you are sitting at home right now. Even though you are a blowhard, I'd still like to believe you wouldn't sit idly by if babies were being murdered WITH OFFICIAL STATE SANCTION.

So just stop it already.

Every bit of your first paragraph was spot on. Thanks for admitting that! You vehemently and consistently oppose the murder of blacks by cops. You see them get away with it many times a year. You must be full of shite too because all that you do is post about it on a message board. I'd like to think that you would not sit idly by if blacks were being murdered by LEOs WITH UNOFFICIAL STATE SANCTION as you always assert that branches of the Government do.

Nah, you don't really care about that at all because if you did you would do something about it.....take one for the team.....go the distance! LOL! Nah, what you care about is making every thing out to be institutional racism.