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Posted on 8/10/20 at 6:44 am to Cold Drink
quote:
The colonists had little chance of beating Britain, but they did.
That is a bit of revisionist history.
Briton had too many other fish to fry and decided the effort was not worth it at the time, the colonist had a 0% path to victory otherwise.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 6:48 am to Cold Drink
And...Hamilton was a federalist who wanted to return to a monarchy. He was an enemy to the constitution and our Republic, in Jefferson I trust!
Posted on 8/10/20 at 7:08 am to greenbean
it's pretty well known that, if we don't accidentally kill stonewall, we probably would have won. most books i've read have stated the same thing. he was a math genius who put that cannon ball where he wanted. when artillery was accurate, the battle was half won. he was a professor at vmi and was a genius with the numbers.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 7:10 am to greenbean
They believed they could withdraw from the union the same way they joined the Union.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 7:21 am to Cold Drink
quote:
we just needed all the Dutch creditors to King George start to get nervous and lose confidence and really start to put a pinch on the Crown Treasury
I think the actual military pressure the British were facing from the Dutch, Spanish, and especially French is vastly underestimated and is the true reason we won. They were in battles with all 3 across the globe and couldnt focus on the USA. George Washington was the least of their worries, he just made it worse.
American Revolution one battlefront in World War
LINK
Posted on 8/10/20 at 7:41 am to AU66
quote:
As someone said earlier the south's best chance was a guerilla strategy, avoid large conflicts and when they did go north create havoc as Sherman did, which the southern code would never allow and Lee would have refused to do
Interesting. Do you think if Jackson had been commanding General that would have been his tactic? Her certainly didn’t mind killing them all...but I haven’t read enough about him to know his thoughts.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 7:47 am to tigerdup07
quote:What you mean “we” Kimosabe? Unless you are at least 155 years old, you weren’t born in the CSA.
it's pretty well known that, if we don't accidentally kill stonewall, we probably would have won.
And it’s not “pretty well known” that the CSA could have won it’s independence from the USA had every CSA general lived without official recognition and significant assistance from either France and/or the UK.
You rite and you sound dum.
This post was edited on 8/10/20 at 7:48 am
Posted on 8/10/20 at 7:53 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
Had the South fought more of a guerrilla war, it could have been possible.
I don’t fully disagree and have thought this myself. Important to remember they were blockaded and already half starved, low on ammo, etc. Not sure if prolonging the war for several more years would have been possible. Plus the Union was always gaining more troops, better guns, while the South wasn’t
Posted on 8/10/20 at 7:57 am to Broski
quote:
Really does put into perspective how shitty the south was, huh?
I thought we were supposed to be the ones who are good with guns.
you should read more and post less. The north had industry while the south was agriculture. The north could produce guns, ships, cannons, etc. also the north had more people.
The south was less populated and could not produce weapons of was from sugar cane, rice, cotton, etc.
That was the motivation of North, they wanted to pay less for agriculture products made in South. As the problem grew, North began creating reasons for war with South. The war never was about slavery. That was an afterthought.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 7:58 am to CrownTownHalo
It had to chap Lee’s arse he couldn’t finish the job before McClellan was removed for good.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 8:00 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
The south was less populated and could not produce weapons of was from sugar cane, rice, cotton, etc.
Yet George Washington Carver made a phonograph needle out of a peanut...
(Vague SNL reference for you younguns)
This post was edited on 8/10/20 at 8:01 am
Posted on 8/10/20 at 8:03 am to tigerdup07
quote:
it's pretty well known that, if we don't accidentally kill stonewall, we probably would have won. most books i've read have stated the same thing. he was a math genius who put that cannon ball where he wanted. when artillery was accurate, the battle was half won. he was a professor at vmi and was a genius with the numbers.
All of these theories are based on what would have happened if Jackson had been at Gettysburg. But even if Jackson had been there, made a difference, and the south wins the battle, I don't know if it means the south wins the war.
A lot could still happen. The 64 election could have been different, etc. But you still have Grant taking Vicksburg and being brought east. If Lincoln wins reelection and there's not a political end to the war, you have to figure the north wins anyway, even if it takes an extra year or two.
But to the civil war nerds, it probably means we get prime Stonewall v. Sherman at some point, which is the civil war nerd dream fight.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 8:43 am to CrownTownHalo
Stonewall was an early advocate of total, black flag war, the tactic that Sherman later employed in force after Vicksburg. Both believed that it would bring a quicker end to the war. Lee and Davis were not willing to let him loose.
Jackson wanted to march on Washington with 10,000 men after bull run, but the army was too disorganized and Davis wouldn’t sanction it. Washington being unprepared at that very moment, it’s entirely possible that, given the men, Washington is taken with little to no resistance, ending the war after it just got started.
Stonewall would have made all the difference at Gettysburg. Jackson always “knew” what Lee wanted done without having to be told....and I think Jackson only ever lost one battle. Jackson being there to know what Lee wanted, versus the clusterfrick of miscommunication that proceeded, would have changed the outcome of that battle, and possibly turned opinion in the north after such a bloody battle.
Even still, Grant always believed that the South just had to make it one more year and the war would have been over because the north was turning in early 1865.
Jackson wanted to march on Washington with 10,000 men after bull run, but the army was too disorganized and Davis wouldn’t sanction it. Washington being unprepared at that very moment, it’s entirely possible that, given the men, Washington is taken with little to no resistance, ending the war after it just got started.
Stonewall would have made all the difference at Gettysburg. Jackson always “knew” what Lee wanted done without having to be told....and I think Jackson only ever lost one battle. Jackson being there to know what Lee wanted, versus the clusterfrick of miscommunication that proceeded, would have changed the outcome of that battle, and possibly turned opinion in the north after such a bloody battle.
Even still, Grant always believed that the South just had to make it one more year and the war would have been over because the north was turning in early 1865.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 8:51 am to Gr8t8s
quote:
Stonewall would have made all the difference at Gettysburg. Jackson always “knew” what Lee wanted done without having to be told....and I think Jackson only ever lost one battle. Jackson being there to know what Lee wanted, versus the clusterfrick of miscommunication that proceeded, would have changed the outcome of that battle, and possibly turned opinion in the north after such a bloody battle.
Unless Seven Days Jackson showed up in PA.
Posted on 8/10/20 at 9:03 am to Gr8t8s
If Lee and Jackson obliterate the Union Army at Gettysburg then the approach to Washington is wide open. However, from the second day onwards, Gettysburg wasn’t winnable
Posted on 8/10/20 at 9:03 am to Cold Drink
quote:
And for the record, Alexander Hamilton - G-Dub’s right hand man - was the guy who truly saw and developed the plan to win. And his genius was that it wasn’t militarily; he knew we couldn’t beat them head to head. So he flipped the script and changed the battlefield. He understood economics, banking, and human behavior like few others and realized we didn’t have to beat the British on the field; we just needed all the Dutch creditors to King George start to get nervous and lose confidence and really start to put a pinch on the Crown Treasury. And he knew we could eventually just make it not worth it to the Crown and they’d have no choice but to pull out.
Calm down Lin Manuel Miranda
Posted on 8/10/20 at 9:10 am to No Colors
When Kentucky did not secede the gig was up. Plus Southern hopes of Britain might possibly coming to its aid was the dtuff of masturbation fantasy. Britain had outlawed slavery 25 years earlier it did not want to be seen as wanting to continue the institution by supporting a break away pro slavery republic
This post was edited on 8/10/20 at 9:11 am
Posted on 8/10/20 at 9:13 am to No Colors
quote:
The initial goal was to force the government to negotiate with them. When Lincoln refused, and war escalated, the goal became to bring England and or France in to recognize and support the Confederacy. When that failed, the goal became to win enough battles to make the prospect of a protracted war seem unpalatable to the North. Which would bring about the defeat of Lincoln in the election of 1864. When that failed, the gig was up and the end came pretty quick.
/thread
Posted on 8/10/20 at 9:16 am to Boo Krewe
quote:
maybe CSa shouldve asked mexico for help
Mexico was dealing with a French invasion.
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