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Message
re: American Bar Association drops LSAT requirement for Law School admissions
Posted on 11/20/22 at 2:07 am to Joshjrn
Posted on 11/20/22 at 2:07 am to Joshjrn
quote:
I wouldn't support gutting it, but it certainly needs a revamp. It's utter garbage at ensuring that someone is competent to practice law
It is like a lot of other "tests" in that it tests one thing assuming there is a high correlation to what actually needs to be tested.
0
Posted on 11/20/22 at 2:22 am to upgrayedd
quote:
Can't remember specifically, but I seem to recall someone saying it's basically not even proctored and pretty much an open book test.
I know I read something like this here previously but I don't know how accurate it is for LA. I don't know of any other states that have gone open book. That being said the majority of law school exams are open book. I remember thinking that was cool the first time I had one but I learned to loathe them, IME they weren't easier.
Posted on 11/20/22 at 4:02 am to Cs
I tell people only deal with white straight males. The only group where you 100% are sure they didn’t get where they are because they checked a box instead of brains and work ethic. Fact. I didn’t design the current system or control it, but I will damn sure mitigate it. I’m not racist or misogynistic, the system is.
Posted on 11/20/22 at 6:54 am to MrWalkingMan
quote:
Lol if you think standardized testing is a determinant of competency in the real world
Our future lawyers will become lawyers without taking the LSAT or passing the bar.
Our future doctors will become doctors without taking organic chemistry , the MCAT, or the USMLE.
But hey, we’ll have more black lawyers and doctors, so that’s even better.
This post was edited on 11/20/22 at 6:55 am
Posted on 11/20/22 at 7:35 am to Cs
Posted on 11/20/22 at 7:44 am to Proximo
quote:
Fair but the policy behind this decision is directed at “equity” so it’s not a good one
If they really want equity they should stop forcing people to go to law school. If you can study on your own and pass the bar you're in.
That way you don't have to spend tens of thousands of dollars on tuition and remove yourself from the workforce for three years.
Posted on 11/20/22 at 7:45 am to Cs
Can’t wait for med schools to diversify more by not requiring entrance exams and eliminating having to go to class.
Posted on 11/20/22 at 7:50 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Watch the compensation fall...
That will be proof of racism.
Posted on 11/20/22 at 9:11 am to biglego
Maybe I am a cynic, but I noticed how they lump Whites and Asians together. I suspect Asians are demonstrably higher.
I wonder where Hispanics score...
and if you could break these groupings even further...
I wonder where Hispanics score...
and if you could break these groupings even further...
Posted on 11/20/22 at 11:10 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
If they really want equity they should stop forcing people to go to law school. If you can study on your own and pass the bar you're in.
There are a few states where you can "read the law" aka apprentice but the pass rate for those that do it is down around 25%. Good luck finding an attorney or judge to do an apprenticeship with and good luck finding a job if that is your route. There is just no way you can get the same level of education even compared to most tier 3 schools.
Posted on 11/20/22 at 11:55 am to roadGator
quote:
Can’t wait for med schools to diversify more by not requiring entrance exams and eliminating having to go to class.
You already have the option of not attending class. I have multiple friends who went through the first two years without going to class. They just watched the lectures online and went to the labs
Posted on 11/20/22 at 11:58 am to Joshjrn
quote:Sure, if you're an elite going to an elite school that has actual standards, or a rich person represented by a lawyer who actually had to earn and compete for their degree.
This is a big nothingburger.
The cheap, poor people's lawyers, however, will be increasingly incompetent, including public defenders. This entire segment of the profession will become less and less qualified over time, and the people they represent will become less and less capable of effectively litigating anything.
The ruling class is putting another nail in most people's coffins, while once again saying blacks are stupid.
Yeah, total nothingburger.
Posted on 11/20/22 at 12:05 pm to blueboy
quote:
Sure, if you're an elite going to an elite school that has actual standards, or a rich person represented by a lawyer who actually had to earn and compete for their degree.
The cheap, poor people's lawyers, however, will be increasingly incompetent, including public defenders. This entire segment of the profession will become less and less qualified over time, and the people they represent will become less and less capable of effectively litigating anything.
The ruling class is putting another nail in most people's coffins, while once again saying blacks are stupid.
Yeah, total nothingburger.
Please expound on why making a test non-mandatory when the score has always been, for lack of a better description, non mandatory will reduce the quality of the legal profession.
For what I imagine is the half-dozenth time, if you're arguing that this is the first step onto a slippery slope, have it it. But I just don't see the argument for this being an issue in and of itself.
Posted on 11/20/22 at 12:12 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:
What we do know is this: Even in the average year, the bar exam is keeping black, indigenous, and people of color (BIPOC) out of the legal profession.
quote:
The bar exam as a discriminatory gate-keeping mechanism is not a remnant of a distant past. Its role in keeping BIPOC out of the profession prevails today. In California, for example, the February 2020 exam had a historically low pass rate of about 27 percent. Most alarming, however, is that only 5 percent of black first-time bar exam takers from California ABA-accredited law schools passed the February 2020 bar examination. Five percent. The data regarding bar exam passage rates for BIPOC is unacceptable at best, unconscionable at worst. It only adds insult to injury when we consider that every salaried leader of the NCBE is white.
LINK
Leftists are quite open about their goal. It’s to remove all “barriers of entry” so that any non-white person can breeze in. It’s their usual bigotry of low expectations in action.
Posted on 11/20/22 at 12:14 pm to Joshjrn
quote:That's your opinion, not a fact, and it's wrong. An abysmal score would have kept you out of most law schools.
Please expound on why making a test non-mandatory when the score has always been, for lack of a better description, non mandatory
As I said, this will produce an even wider gulf between lawyers who attended different levels of law school. Some poor guy's public defender just got a bit dumber.
And of course, once again, they're saying that they have to lower the bar, yet again, because blacks are too dumb to pass or even prepare for the test.
This is classic CRT. If you read their literature (Crenshaw and Kennedy especially), qualification doesn't matter. All that does is 'diversity.' The CRT advocates don't care whether or not the tokens are capable. Their words, not mine.
Posted on 11/20/22 at 12:21 pm to blueboy
quote:
That's your opinion, not a fact, and it's wrong. An abysmal score would have kept you out of most law schools.
No, what is said is objective fact. While any law school could exclude based on LSAT, none were required to exclude based on LSAT score. Going forward, any law school can exclude based on LSAT score, but they are no longer required to request a score at all. The only change is that, previously, law schools were required to request an LSAT score that they were free to ignore as they chose. Now, they no longer have to request it if they don't want to. That's it.
quote:
As I said, this will produce an even wider gulf between lawyers who attended different levels of law school. Some poor guy's public defender just got a bit dumber.
And of course, once again, they're saying that they have to lower the bar, yet again, because blacks are too dumb to pass or even prepare for the test.
This is classic CRT. If you read their literature (Crenshaw and Kennedy especially), qualification doesn't matter. All that does is 'diversity.' The CRT advocates don't care whether or not the tokens are capable. Their words, not mine.
Yes, I know you said it, as a conclusory statement. You simply haven't explained how you reached that conclusion.
This post was edited on 11/20/22 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 11/20/22 at 12:34 pm to Joshjrn
quote:No, they did and they do.
While any law school could exclude based on LSAT,
quote:
You simply haven't explained how you reached that conclusion.
Really? Lower standards = shittier lawyers, and it mostly affects poor people because the cheaper, shittier lawyers will be their lawyers. Do I really have to draw you a picture to explain this?
Posted on 11/20/22 at 1:04 pm to blueboy
quote:
No, they did and they do.
And they still can. They were not required to then; they are not required to now. They were not barred from doing so then; they are not barred from doing so now.
quote:
Really?
Lower standards = shittier lawyers, and it mostly affects poor people because the cheaper, shittier lawyers will be their lawyers. Do I really have to draw you a picture to explain this?
What you haven't actually done is explain how this is a "lowering of standards". Again, the LSAT is simply an aptitude test, like the SAT/ACT. The ABA did not mandate a minimum score. As I've posted before, you could take the LSAT, get every single question wrong, and still be admitted to whatever law school was willing to take you. Law schools had the discretion to do whatever they wanted. They still have that discretion going forward. The only difference is that if a school wants to ignore an LSAT score, which they were always free to do, they can simply not require the test score be reported at all.
Standards aren't "being lowered" because there was no mandated "LSAT standard" that existed to begin with.
Posted on 11/20/22 at 1:12 pm to Cs
This will just make the student debt number much higher…a lot of people will graduate and not be able to find work
Posted on 11/20/22 at 1:57 pm to Cs
If I am on death row I don’t want the best & brightest I want diversity
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