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re: The pain we are going to endure this season could have been done 3 years ago.

Posted on 8/16/24 at 12:00 pm to
Posted by GynoSandberg
Bay St Louis, MS
Member since Jan 2006
74480 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 12:00 pm to
Allen and Carmichael are the low hanging fruit scapegoats. They inherited a suicide mission
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 12:17 pm to
quote:

In 2022, Saints spent about $275M in actual cash - 5th in the league (link above). It was going to be hard for the FO to shed contracts left and right to soft reset while spending actual cash


quote:

Saints are spending about $279M in cash, which is about 19th in league. It will be hard for any FO to completely reset when they have that much in cash expenditures

We have so much cash expenditures in large part to restructuring contracts instead of being able to cut players.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

This whole thing is more palatable if we didn’t pony up for Carr like we were a piece away (and lol that he was the “piece”).

His contract was literally throwing gasoline on a burning building.
Posted by PlacerCoTiger
Placer County, CA
Member since Nov 2015
420 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 12:31 pm to
quote:

Atlanta faced similar challenges with the cap. They just swallowed it and took the lumps on guys like Matt Ryan and Julio.


They took the cap hits in 2021-22, but their cash expenditures dropped to 31st and 32nd in the NFL. Basically - they cut salaries to nothing and took cap hits from previous contracts. Not sure the Saints could have or can take the same approach Atl did a few years ago - it would depend on how the guaranteed money was distributed over the life of existing contracts.

This year, Atl has a reasonable cap hit at $253M but has has cash expenditures of $306M. What’s interesting is next year they are bottom 10 in cap space ($251M right now) but only have $185M in cash expenditures. If they feel like spending cash to make a run, they will have it, but they won’t have a ton of salary cap space to do it, at least as it currently stands. They could very easily themselves in the same trap that the Saints have all these years (pushing out cap hits and spending now) if they are not wise. Should be interesting to follow.

This post was edited on 8/16/24 at 12:33 pm
Posted by PlacerCoTiger
Placer County, CA
Member since Nov 2015
420 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 12:38 pm to
quote:

We have so much cash expenditures in large part to restructuring contracts instead of being able to cut players.


Agreed. It’s a losing battle. You have to re-sign or extend players to spread for cap hits instead of biting the cap hits. You wind up with guaranteed money going to older or not-up-to-par players, making it more difficult to move on from them when time. If we had a draft strategy that matched or complimented our spending strategy, we might be able to get away with it. But we use the draft capital foolishly (though this last year we showed some restraint).

It’s an approach that could work for a season or two, maybe, but doesn’t long-term. We gave Drew a window and it didn’t work. Now the approach is killing us.
This post was edited on 8/16/24 at 12:47 pm
Posted by GynoSandberg
Bay St Louis, MS
Member since Jan 2006
74480 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 12:56 pm to
quote:

They could very easily themselves in the same trap that the Saints have all these years (pushing out cap hits and spending now) if they are not wise. Should be interesting to follow.


They pretty much negated the work they did with the Cousins signing. What they do with his deal remains to be seen. They do have Penix so things will likely get hairy there
Posted by goatmilker
Castle Anthrax
Member since Feb 2009
77116 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 1:33 pm to
Oh dear the poor children. Maybe they should be given bonuses for the terrible defense Loomis gave them and the magic they performed for the offense.
Posted by redneck
Los Suenos, Costa Rica
Member since Dec 2003
54203 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 1:34 pm to
quote:

The second Brees walked out that door, they really should have done a hard reset, sucked for year, rebuilt the cap situation, gotten younger. Everyone knew it at the time and it was talked about a bunch.


The roster was way too talented at that point to do a hard reset. You don't go from 4x defending NFC south champs to drafting high enough to get your next franchise QB in one season. Also, like others have stated, the wrong coaching decision was made so it probably wouldn't have mattered anyways.
Posted by PlacerCoTiger
Placer County, CA
Member since Nov 2015
420 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 1:36 pm to
quote:

hey pretty much negated the work they did with the Cousins signing. What they do with his deal remains to be seen. They do have Penix


Totally agree. I have zero idea what they are doing there. That was a ton of guaranteed money for Cousins only to draft a QB high on a rookie contract. If you are drafting a QB 1-15ish, he needs to at least be projected to play by year two to take advantage of the rookie contract. The FA and draft strategy there was so inconsistent- it has to impact them eventually.
Posted by Swagga
504
Member since Dec 2009
19413 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 1:40 pm to
quote:

The roster was way too talented at that point to do a hard reset. You don't go from 4x defending NFC south champs to drafting high enough to get your next franchise QB in one season. Also, like others have stated, the wrong coaching decision was made so it probably wouldn't have mattered anyways.


We had the right idea. Just put the wrong pieces in place to execute it. Allen, carmichael, penning, foskey, Davenport, Turner, etc.

You can’t waste that many high draft picks and struggle like we will on the o-line. Carr could have worked if you could protect him, but the talent evaluation has been horrendous.

Wholesale changes will likely have to be made, but I think most are beginning to embrace a “soft reset”
Posted by Gcaro76
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2017
174 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 4:16 pm to
Bruh, Is he really serious about how Winston was the answer at QB after Brees because he had Sean Payton at coach! Yikes!!!!!
Posted by P bean
br
Member since Dec 2006
4759 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:02 pm to
quote:

The Saints had kind of prepared for Drew's departure by getting Winston. In 2021 they were en route to going 5-2 when Winston was lost for the season. Had he not gotten hurt, looking at the remaining schedule, that team probably finishes with 11 or 12 wins, and likely wins the NFC south since they dominated Tampa that season. At that point you could have made the argument the Saints were still one of the best teams, overall, in the NFC. If that is the case, I don't think Payton leaves after the season.


Correct.

Jabo shredded his knee and broke his spine in back to back season and is now career high paid backup.

But pretending like the Saints were wrong after going 5-2 and rolling with Jabo 3 years ago is just pretending.

This board does not watch games. Confirmed.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:15 pm to
Nobody criticized getting Jameis on a bargain deal. Giving it one year post Brees was rational and reasonable

When that did not work out, any logical thinker would have seen the window was shut.

We tripled down on irrationality by signing Carr and that doomed our title chances for a long, long time
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
32407 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:23 pm to
1. Still had an elite defense
2. Carousel at qb, they believed offense would improve if they gave Carmichael a Qb.

Reality:
Pass protection sucks
Run game sucks.
Doesn't matter who's QB if you don't have even 2 seconds.
Posted by goatmilker
Castle Anthrax
Member since Feb 2009
77116 posts
Posted on 8/16/24 at 9:05 pm to
quote:

doomed our title chances for a long, long time



SlowFlowPro












Posted by Geauxldilocks
Member since Aug 2018
6609 posts
Posted on 8/17/24 at 8:39 am to
Outside of Bresse, who seems ok (still not a starter) last years draft is on the edge of a total waste. Foskey, Miller, Salvederi all appear to be busts and will be cut in the next 1-2 seasons.
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
32407 posts
Posted on 8/17/24 at 9:34 am to
Howden looked to be in every play last year.
Bresee's weakness was run defense, pass rush he was solid. So we can see how that goes this year.

Agree that foskey was a waste. Branch would have been the best option still.

Miller showed flashes, but he really needs to be healthy or it's pointless.

Salvederi was slotted to be our LG.

That being said you can't waste 1-3 rounders like we have been. Every year you should expect 2 guys to contribute time and play. We can't even do that.
Posted by Lester Earl
3rd Ward
Member since Nov 2003
291658 posts
Posted on 8/17/24 at 9:51 am to
Two reasons:

Part 1:

FEB 2022: Saints make Dennis Allen permanent HC
APR 2022: Saints trade collection of draft bounty for Chris Olave



Part 2:
2020 Draft
1.24 Cesar Ruiz Bust
3.74 Zach Baun Bust
3.105 Adam Trautman Bust

2021 Draft
1.28 Payton Turner Bust

2022 Draft
1.11 Olave trade
1.19 Trevor Penning


No other GM could survive such futility
Posted by Geauxldilocks
Member since Aug 2018
6609 posts
Posted on 8/17/24 at 9:51 am to
quote:

We gave Drew a window and it didn’t work. Now the approach is killing us.


The problem is we’re addicted to the approach and it’s all we know. Extending aging and low performers like Jordan, Carr, etc has become a death spiral of sorts because you have to borrow from future years to field a team this year. Even if a player has value and is tradable, the contract and accelerated cap hit prevents the move.

I predicted 4-5 years ago the Saints were in the early innings of a lost decade of football.

The primary hope of turning this around is if Rattler somehow develops into a top 10 QB. The narrative can slowly shift if the franchise can get a little juice, so we can attract a decent coach and cheap FAs again.
This post was edited on 8/17/24 at 9:52 am
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
63672 posts
Posted on 8/17/24 at 10:10 am to
quote:

The second Brees walked out that door, they really should have done a hard reset, sucked for year, rebuilt the cap situation, gotten younger. Everyone knew it at the time and it was talked about a bunch


The problem is t necessarily that it didn’t happen right away. It’s that it still hasn’t happened.

They aren’t hanging on to anything and still haven’t started the process and worse have dug the hole deeper primarily with the Carr restructure.

We are looking at a 2 year tear down at minimum. The rebuild will be even longer.
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