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The pain we are going to endure this season could have been done 3 years ago.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:01 am
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:01 am
The second Brees walked out that door, they really should have done a hard reset, sucked for year, rebuilt the cap situation, gotten younger. Everyone knew it at the time and it was talked about a bunch.
It would have been painful. We would have been horrible, but now, we would be through the other side of the worst parts of that.
We could have at MINIMUM done a soft rebuild that took 3 years instead of 1-2 to get through the cap nightmare and contract shedding...
Instead they thought they were still great. They thought they could still win playoff games and kept going all in.
And here we are...
It would have been painful. We would have been horrible, but now, we would be through the other side of the worst parts of that.
We could have at MINIMUM done a soft rebuild that took 3 years instead of 1-2 to get through the cap nightmare and contract shedding...
Instead they thought they were still great. They thought they could still win playoff games and kept going all in.
And here we are...
13
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:08 am to Fun Bunch
Eh, we know that's not how Loomis is going to do it. To be honest, we've had a defense the last few years that's been good enough to make a playoff push. We got what many thought (including myself) a good enough QB to be in the playoffs. I felt Carr is an above average guy. We invested heavily from the draft on Oline, completely failed at it though. Assumed MT would continue would get healthy and not go mentally insane. The pieces were there even after Brees to make a push, it just hasn't worked out. Mostly due to picking the wrong guys in the draft (right position) wrong guys, MT being crazy, and Carmichael's play calling.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:12 am to Mushroom1968
quote:
Eh, we know that's not how Loomis is going to do it.
Oh yeah I know that's the point.
Even a mini soft rebuild would have been fine. Shed a little cap, but yourself in a slightly better situation financially, draft well and get a little younger and strike when the time was right to get an actual good QB that was surrounded by nice young talent.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:14 am to Fun Bunch
They picked the wrong coach. Once that mistake was made, the die was cast and there was nothing to be done.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:17 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Even a mini soft rebuild would have been fine. Shed a little cap, but yourself in a slightly better situation financially, draft well and get a little younger and strike when the time was right to get an actual good QB that was surrounded by nice young talent.
I see what you mean but if Penning, Ruiz, Turner (DE) would have worked out we'd be in a much different boat. I'm just saying we could have not even fooled with any kind of rebuild and done fine. We've just had some major ooopsies in the draft.
Which kinda does make what you are saying a good point though. We haven't been able to do much in FA. When you can't get FAs, you need to hit in the draft. Granted we did get Carr. I think if Penning and Ruiz, and Ram not have the injury problem, would have panned out better, Carr would be playing much better. We also forget about Ram having his issue, on top of Penning sucking, and losing Peat. Our Oline is the biggest concrn on the team outside of DA being head coach.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:18 am to Mushroom1968
When you go about the approach the Saints did, there is 0 room for error. YOU MUST DRAFT WELL.
If you don't you are fricked.
If you put yourself in a better cap situation and are able to get THE QB, you have room for error.
Saints approach has none, and they drafted horribly to boot
If you don't you are fricked.
If you put yourself in a better cap situation and are able to get THE QB, you have room for error.
Saints approach has none, and they drafted horribly to boot
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:22 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
When you go about the approach the Saints did, there is 0 room for error. YOU MUST DRAFT WELL.
If you don't you are fricked.
If you put yourself in a better cap situation and are able to get THE QB, you have room for error.
Saints approach has none, and they drafted horribly to boot
Yep. We basically proceeded as if we were just a player or two away from a SB run and that just wasn't reality.
I don't hate most of the early picks we've made but they just haven't worked out.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:23 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
When you go about the approach the Saints did, there is 0 room for error. YOU MUST DRAFT WELL.
If you don't you are fricked.
If you put yourself in a better cap situation and are able to get THE QB, you have room for error.
Saints approach has none, and they drafted horribly to boot
I agree with all this. I see your initial point more clearly. A soft rebuild could have afforded us room for error in the draft and we could have after a year or 2 played FA more. To me the 2 biggest issues aside from DA as head coach, as I've stated, is Ram's health, and Penning being a total disaster. I hope we've hit it with our #1 pick this year at LT. Still not enough
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:28 am to Fun Bunch
You are 100% correct. We should have extended Payton to lead the rebuild.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:29 am to Mushroom1968
quote:
I agree with all this. I see your initial point more clearly. A soft rebuild could have afforded us room for error in the draft and we could have after a year or 2 played FA more. To me the 2 biggest issues aside from DA as head coach, as I've stated, is Ram's health, and Penning being a total disaster. I hope we've hit it with our #1 pick this year at LT. Still not enough
No doubt this is a combo of poor decisions and just tough luck. You live on credit, miss on a few draft picks and add in some crazy circumstances like MT13 & Ram and this is what you get.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 8:41 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
The second Brees walked out that door, they really should have done a hard reset
Do you remember that 3 years ago we still had Sean Payton and Sean had a groomed Winston as a Brees replacement who had us at 5-2 and on pace for 40 plus td’s that year when Winston tore his acl????
Do you remember?
Yeah, the Saints FO is really to blame for that right????
I swear you folks dont actually watch the Saints wtf.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 9:00 am to P bean
Yes we were well on our way to the Super Bowl with Jameis Winston at QB
Posted on 8/16/24 at 9:23 am to Mushroom1968
quote:
Eh, we know that's not how Loomis is going to do it. To be honest, we've had a defense the last few years that's been good enough to make a playoff push. We got what many thought (including myself) a good enough QB to be in the playoffs. I felt Carr is an above average guy. We invested heavily from the draft on Oline, completely failed at it though. Assumed MT would continue would get healthy and not go mentally insane. The pieces were there even after Brees to make a push, it just hasn't worked out. Mostly due to picking the wrong guys in the draft (right position) wrong guys, MT being crazy, and Carmichael's play calling.
The Saints had kind of prepared for Drew's departure by getting Winston. In 2021 they were en route to going 5-2 when Winston was lost for the season. Had he not gotten hurt, looking at the remaining schedule, that team probably finishes with 11 or 12 wins, and likely wins the NFC south since they dominated Tampa that season. At that point you could have made the argument the Saints were still one of the best teams, overall, in the NFC. If that is the case, I don't think Payton leaves after the season.
But that didn't happen. The Saints struggled to get to 9-8. And that was almost entirely on the heels of a great defense...led by DA. Payton left. But I'm sure the thought inside the building was "we were an injured QB away from being a contender in the NFC. Let's keep the defense in tact and keep the same offense, while adding a playmaker at WR and bolstering the OL". It didn't work. But to say they absolutely should not have taken that approach is viewed the lens of hindsight. At the time there was a reasonable basis to try to keep things going.
If you want to fault anything, it was the Carr signing last year. Carr was probably better than anything on the roster...but not by a significant margin. 2022 should have been a signal that maybe the team needed to change course a bit. They didn't. They (wrongly) assumed they were just a QB away and overpaid to get one that wasn't worth it.
I don't blame the FO for what they did after the 2020 and 2021 seasons. It was the failing to recognize the issues after 2022 that was the problem.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 10:21 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
We could have at MINIMUM done a soft rebuild that took 3 years instead of 1-2 to get through the cap nightmare and contract shedding...
LINK
The inability to reset, even a soft reset, wasn’t just the cap. It’s the actual cash. In 2022, Saints spent about $275M in actual cash - 5th in the league (link above). It was going to be hard for the FO to shed contracts left and right to soft reset while spending actual cash (including guaranteed money) on veteran players. The actual cash sunk cost was so high, the FO went as all-in as they could, and it failed miserably. Classic trap. Obviously this issue was compounded because of cap management practices.
The issue is, we are still in the same boat. In 2024, Saints are spending about $279M in cash, which is about 19th in league. It will be hard for any FO to completely reset when they have that much in cash expenditures, but they need to realize we could have spent less and still finished 7-10 or worse, which is likely this year.
As everyone has said, if you are going to spend a lot on veterans, you have to hit on your draft picks whose rookie contracts are cheap. Too many misses. Overspending in FA made the problem worse. Now, it’s not about shedding contracts via cuts, trades, etc. The FO is stuck for a while with the choices they made. 2026 is probably soonest they can fix.
This post was edited on 8/16/24 at 10:22 am
Posted on 8/16/24 at 10:24 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
The pain we are going to endure this season could have been done 3 years ago.
This is how Mickey wanted it
It’s his show
Posted on 8/16/24 at 10:27 am to Fun Bunch
So don’t watch. It’s easy. Or watch and constantly bitch about it, your choice!
Posted on 8/16/24 at 10:40 am to SelaTiger
What a stupid sentiment.
Its alright to be critical of the team.
A fan is critical of the team when they deserves it, yet still watches and cheers during the game.
Its alright to be critical of the team.
A fan is critical of the team when they deserves it, yet still watches and cheers during the game.
Posted on 8/16/24 at 10:47 am to Fun Bunch
Fun I truly believe if the defense had not been 5th in the league they would definitely have chosen a different path. I just don't think nfl teams with a top 5 offense or defense is likely to do the full rebuild we wanted.
This post was edited on 8/16/24 at 10:48 am
Posted on 8/16/24 at 10:55 am to PlacerCoTiger
Atlanta faced similar challenges with the cap. They just swallowed it and took the lumps on guys like Matt Ryan and Julio. They have the same amount of playoff appearances as us the last three seasons and are backing trending the right way.
This whole thing is more palatable if we didn’t pony up for Carr like we were a piece away (and lol that he was the “piece”).
This whole thing is more palatable if we didn’t pony up for Carr like we were a piece away (and lol that he was the “piece”).
Posted on 8/16/24 at 11:08 am to GynoSandberg
The real dagger to the heart of the franchise was not the contract of Carr but keeping a total sh!t storm in Pete Carmichael as OC for two damn years.
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