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Started By
Message
re: Saints trading CGJ to eagles for 5th and 6th round picks.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:24 pm to GynoSandberg
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:24 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Mathieu’s deal is very team friendly. We can get out after ‘24 and if it’s not, it’s built to allow a favorable restructure. As it stands now the cap hit the next two years isn’t even in the top 10 on the team.
Maye’s deal is even better. We could get out or restructure with minimal impact sooner than later.
We can't cut TM until after 2023 due to 2022's guarantees. It's very likely that we have to restructure that as soon as the super bowl is over, which adds to the guaranteed money (via signing bonus) and will severely increase the future dead cap money. We have $3.8M in future cap already dead due to the 2 void years. That space is gone and it just depends on how long we keep him around.
We can't cut him until after 2023 and by then we'd have incurred about $18M in cap hits for those 2 years of play.
We are stuck with Maye for 2 of his 3 year contract unless we do a big restructuring (which just creates more dead cap down the road and adds to his guarantees). Maye's deal already has $2.4M in future cap eaten via his void years.
We can't cut him until after 2023 and by then he'd have already taken up almost $15M in total cap hits.
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 2:10 pm
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Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:24 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If everyone's argument is that we'd have a gap at safety if we paid MW, then playing TM in the slot leaves that same gap
He posted coverage stats, not slot stats (at least in one or 2 posts; maybe he has another with just slot stats as well).
HB isn't going to play slot primarily. He is a safety and he'll slide down to slot when they go 4 or 5 wide. We have 2 other guys to play primary slot.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:24 pm to RB10
quote:
Not as proven as Mathieu, who you keep calling mediocre.
MW's replacement is Maye
I'm not comparing MW to TM no matter how many times you try to create that straw man
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:25 pm to bonethug0180
Seeing reports that CJGC wanted $12 million a year
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:25 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
here you go again pretending like Jenkins contract hit is something that just disappears if we resign MW.
I've never said that.
quote:
How does that work exactly?
I don't know because I've never made that argument
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:25 pm to tigersquad89
Good Lord that's a terrible deal
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
The fact people on this board aren't more pissed Payton pretty much committed collusion against his own team on the Taysom Hill deal is something I'll never understand.
Nobody was giving Taysom Hill that much money, much less guaranteed money. Payton gets his buddy extended and paid. Then leaves the organization.
Now you're left with a player that can't do one thing particularly well and huge cap hits.
Nobody was giving Taysom Hill that much money, much less guaranteed money. Payton gets his buddy extended and paid. Then leaves the organization.
Now you're left with a player that can't do one thing particularly well and huge cap hits.
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 1:27 pm
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:29 pm to bonethug0180
Also I'll add that guaranteed money matters GREATLY to what an actual contract will pay put.
MW is committed for 3 years at about $11 mil per. Maye and HB are getting far less guaranteed and can be cut or restructured before 3 years. Basically big fluff final years with little to no guarantees.
MW is committed for 3 years at about $11 mil per. Maye and HB are getting far less guaranteed and can be cut or restructured before 3 years. Basically big fluff final years with little to no guarantees.
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:30 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
MW's replacement is Maye
I'm not comparing MW to TM no matter how many times you try to create that straw man
It’s not a strawman. You called Mathieu mediocre, but keep calling Williams elite. It’s not a direct comparison of position, it’s a comparison of accomplishments.
You clearly have some sort of infatuation with Marcus Williams.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:30 pm to bonethug0180
Thank you.
Don't understand how this guy doesn't understand how guaranteed money is the end all be all.
Just like the saints like to keep a low cap hit in the first yr of contracts while other teams like to spread the hit evenly.
In the end it a comes down to that guaranteed money.
Don't understand how this guy doesn't understand how guaranteed money is the end all be all.
Just like the saints like to keep a low cap hit in the first yr of contracts while other teams like to spread the hit evenly.
In the end it a comes down to that guaranteed money.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:30 pm to SlowFlowPro
yes you are. You are trying to argue that MW at 70MM + some other unknown FA safety to replace Jenkins is cheaper than TM7 and MM (after you already admitted it wasnt). The only way that works is if you only count the Jenkins hit in the second scenario which is dishonest and stupid, yet you've already done this in the thread.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:32 pm to LSUZombie
quote:
Seeing reports that CJGC wanted $12 million a
Damn that's exactly what i said.
I figured they offered 8 and he wanted around 12.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:35 pm to Chalkywhite84
so we would likely have been stuck signing him at 12AAS if we retained MW at 14AAS. Both for 5 years minimum with massive guarantees. That would have sucked.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:35 pm to tigersquad89
I thought both he and WR Calloway or WR/KR Donte Harty were potential trade candidates. All represented quality players with some desirability on the open market and might could help either in salary cap or as capital toward an area where there may be a greater need, such as OT. WR T Smith would have been another had he not been injured against the Chargers. Sucks to lose Gardner-Johnson but he was never going to get $12-14M a year.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:37 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
Don't understand how this guy doesn't understand how guaranteed money is the end all be all.
Because I am talking about impacts on the cap.
Guaranteed money has an effect on this, but it's nowhere near direct.
I just posted the minimum cap hits on TM/MM above. It's not correlating to their guaranteed money.
Also, what is effectively "guaranteed" can shift with restructuring (since signing bonuses are considered guaranteed). I imagine both MM and TM (unless both are spectacular failures) will have salary converted to signing bonus (because that's what we do to kick the can down the road) and effectively increase "guaranteed" money.
That's why using guarantees when discussing cap is not ideal
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:39 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
You are trying to argue that MW at 70MM + some other unknown FA safety to replace Jenkins is cheaper than TM7 and MM (after you already admitted it wasnt).
I'm arguing MW + TM (what we could have had) would cost less in terms of cap than TM + MM + either TH or MJ's cap hits (what we ended up with)
quote:
The only way that works is if you only count the Jenkins hit in the second scenario which is dishonest and stupid,
My argument is that signing Jenkins was terrible because of the effects on our cap long-term. Why would I ignore the impact of that terrible decision when talking about the cap today?
Same with Hill
I said both things when we signed them and the chickens are coming home to roost.
My argument is about cap management and not any one individual player or deal.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:39 pm to tigersquad89
DO. NOT.LIKE.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:40 pm to SlowFlowPro
anyone could be restructured though. You dont magically lose that advantage with one player over another. Any way you slice it, the Saints did very well in dollars per productivity by signing MM and TM7 and arent saddled with their contracts for nearly as long.
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:42 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
anyone could be restructured though. You dont magically lose that advantage with one player over another.
Well MW's contract is less likely to be majorly restructured b/c Baltimore made it pretty straight up. Big signing bonus and reasonable annual salaries. No void years or other tricks to make it fit today and screw you down the road.
TM and MMs contracts are literally built to both waste future cap (via void years) and force restructuring or cutting after year 2.
quote:
and arent saddled with their contracts for nearly as long.
Well yeah they're old
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:42 pm to DiamondDog
quote:
The fact people on this board aren't more pissed Payton pretty much committed collusion against his own team on the Taysom Hill deal is something I'll never understand.
Nobody was giving Taysom Hill that much money, much less guaranteed money. Payton gets his buddy extended and paid. Then leaves the organization.
Now you're left with a player that can't do one thing particularly well and huge cap hits.
I know I've been pissed about for a while. I think we have finally hit the acceptance stage over it. You can't go back and change it. It's a terrible deal that put an already cap hell team into a bigger cap hell team. I don't understand how Payton ever thought he could make Taysom an NFL QB and the Saints are left to pick up the pieces of Payton's arrogance after he heads for the door.
This board will really melt when Payton takes his next job.
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 1:49 pm
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