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re: Refs are making the NFL hard to watch

Posted on 12/14/18 at 10:29 am to
Posted by ElRoos
Member since Nov 2017
7196 posts
Posted on 12/14/18 at 10:29 am to
quote:

That last D holding call on 3rd and long was total BS. Refs are just total BS this year. So many f ing game changing calls.


Honestly, looks like they just made that call up because they didn't call the hit on Rivers before that. Not saying that hit should have been called either.
Posted by MountainTiger
The foot of Mt. Belzoni
Member since Dec 2008
14661 posts
Posted on 12/14/18 at 10:36 am to
quote:

I’m not a huge fan of Aikmann but he’s been spot on about these penalties getting really old, and seems like the league is wanting them called to extend drives for more scoring.

I agree but the other day he was talking about offensive holding calls and how the league wanted more of them. He said something like I can't believe any fan is sitting at home hoping for more offensive holding penalties. And I thought to myself, I for one would like to see more holding called and I'm guessing Cam Jordan would too.
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
41125 posts
Posted on 12/14/18 at 10:37 am to
quote:

Honestly, looks like they just made that call up because they didn't call the hit on Rivers before that. Not saying that hit should have been called either.


If you watch the replay again, Watch the ref that threw the flag.

He was trying to get the flag out prior to the defensive back grabbed the WR's arm. The ref had a problem pulling the flag out, so it comes out late.

Whatever he saw/called happened before what we saw on the replay. Fox never show the full replay, just the arm grab at the end. Remember the call was holding not PI, which meant the ball wasn't in the air, when the violation occurred.
Posted by Weekend Warrior79
Member since Aug 2014
16201 posts
Posted on 12/14/18 at 11:57 am to
quote:

The exact same ref that allowed Kamara to get drilled in the helmet with no call.

quote:

Walt Anderson begins the fifteenth week of the season with the Thursday night game in Kansas City. This is his third Thursday night game of the year, and the second in three weeks.


footballzebras.com

Let's hope old Walt is not rewarded with a Superbowl assignment.


I Agree they were bad misses, but neither of those calls would have bene for Walt to make. He is behind the O-line, so he would not have had a clear view of the hits. Both calls were missed by the line judge, would be curious to know if it was the same LJ that missed both calls.
Posted by GOON
Fantasy Land
Member since Mar 2008
7399 posts
Posted on 12/14/18 at 12:31 pm to
quote:

I Agree they were bad misses, but neither of those calls would have bene for Walt to make. He is behind the O-line, so he would not have had a clear view of the hits. Both calls were missed by the line judge, would be curious to know if it was the same LJ that missed both calls.



Very true. Kudos to you for knowing that.
Posted by Mrwhodat
Member since Dec 2015
10296 posts
Posted on 12/14/18 at 2:36 pm to
quote:

Very true. Kudos to you for knowing that.


Since, from what I gather, you're a ref.

Do these crews stay together each week with the same personnel?

And does not the whole crew get a down grade when the same helmet to helmet goes uncalled two out of the last 3 weeks together?

Does not Walt Anderson have some responsibility for the actions or lack thereof for his crew?

Maybe as plays are fluid, he did have a view.

His crew keeps making the same helmet to helmet mistakes.

He needs to address this or not get a Superbowl assignment.
Posted by MountainTiger
The foot of Mt. Belzoni
Member since Dec 2008
14661 posts
Posted on 12/14/18 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

Do these crews stay together each week with the same personnel?


True.

quote:

And does not the whole crew get a down grade when the same helmet to helmet goes uncalled two out of the last 3 weeks together?


Not sure. I think each official is individually graded.

quote:

Does not Walt Anderson have some responsibility for the actions or lack thereof for his crew?


Some responsibility but each official has his own area of the field that he is responsible for (apologies for assuming his gender). Walt can't cover the entire field himself and he has to rely on the other officials to make the correct calls in their areas.

When the playoffs start, the crews are composed of "all star" officials - those who have graded the highest. It's not the best crews; rather new crews composed of the highest grading officials during the regular season.
Posted by SpqrTiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2004
9252 posts
Posted on 12/14/18 at 5:01 pm to
Has anyone considered the absurdity that we even know referee’s names and tendencies? We wouldn’t, if we didn’t have to.

That’s how far referees have inserted themselves into the game and determining outcomes. The average fan knows refs now. That, in concept, is ridiculous.

A few decades ago, no one knew their names, had discussions about which games they’ve worked, had concerns about which playoff games they would work... nothing like that. We couldn’t recognize a NFL referee even if he worked every one of our favorite team’s games.

It’s sad that referees get so much “screen time” now that they have notoriety. It’s a sign of a game that has become too complicated for its own good, and players and coaches who are obsessed with pushing each and every rule to the limit on every play. Can you blame them? The culture of the league is rules-focused, and it sucks.

Posted by Chuker
St George, Louisiana
Member since Nov 2015
7544 posts
Posted on 12/14/18 at 6:32 pm to
quote:

Honestly, looks like they just made that call up because they didn't call the hit on Rivers before that. Not saying that hit should have been called either.




It was a make up call for sure. And the hit should've been called per current rules.
Posted by Stanky Cheese
Member since Mar 2017
6 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 4:55 am to
It's pretty easy to watch.
Posted by Duzz
Houston
Member since Feb 2008
9955 posts
Posted on 12/16/18 at 6:12 pm to
XFL then, So far the following rules will not be in the XFL.

No offensive false start.

No Holding on Offensive Lineman,

No Defensive Holding on DB covering WRs.

No Roughing the Passer Penalty.

Posted by GOON
Fantasy Land
Member since Mar 2008
7399 posts
Posted on 12/17/18 at 8:56 am to
quote:

Since, from what I gather, you're a ref.


I am a football official, yes (I am primarily a Back Judge, though I have worked some Referee assignments).

quote:

Do these crews stay together each week with the same personnel?


In the NFL, generally yes. At least for the season. There is quite a bit of change on every crew from one year to the next, however. So Walt might keep one or two officials from his crew next year, but the rest will be new.

quote:

And does not the whole crew get a down grade when the same helmet to helmet goes uncalled two out of the last 3 weeks together?




It depends, but generally no. Individual calls are graded only on the covering official. The crew is generally graded on things like penalty enforcement, game management/control, etc. But individual calls are typically only affect the grade of one or two officials.

Fun fact, that's part of the reason officials started wearing hats - so that evaluators could more easily tell where they were looking by using the brim of the hat.

quote:

Does not Walt Anderson have some responsibility for the actions or lack thereof for his crew?

Maybe as plays are fluid, he did have a view.



Yes and no. The referee has his assignment and generally has no idea on things like PI, holding downfield, some helmet to helmet calls. If the evaluator determines that Walt had released his primary key and was in a clean up pursuit coverage, then maybe he could be held accountable as well, but usually no.

To more specifically answer this question, though, Walt has responsibility over the things I mentioned in the last question, penalty enforcement, game administration, etc. He really can't take responsibility for another official making a judgement call. That's on the other official.

quote:

His crew keeps making the same helmet to helmet mistakes.

He needs to address this or not get a Superbowl assignment.


The missed hit on Kamara was definitely a missed call by the deep wing official (can't remember if it was the F or the S that missed it). I didn't see the other one(s) you're talking about.

If the crew as a whole is consistently missing calls, then yes, it will be addressed by both the league and by Walt. And the crew as a whole, not the Referee, is assigned a Superbowl. So if the crew as a whole is deemed to be lacking, then they won't be considered and most of the crew will be reassigned next year to try to find a configuration that works.



I hope this answers the questions and helps clear things up for you.
Posted by GOON
Fantasy Land
Member since Mar 2008
7399 posts
Posted on 12/17/18 at 8:58 am to
quote:

When the playoffs start, the crews are composed of "all star" officials - those who have graded the highest. It's not the best crews; rather new crews composed of the highest grading officials during the regular season.



I don't know that this is true in the NFL. I'm not an NFL official, so I don't know for sure, but I thought they used the regular season crews.
Posted by GOON
Fantasy Land
Member since Mar 2008
7399 posts
Posted on 12/17/18 at 9:02 am to
quote:

Has anyone considered the absurdity that we even know referee’s names and tendencies? We wouldn’t, if we didn’t have to.

That’s how far referees have inserted themselves into the game and determining outcomes. The average fan knows refs now. That, in concept, is ridiculous.

A few decades ago, no one knew their names, had discussions about which games they’ve worked, had concerns about which playoff games they would work... nothing like that. We couldn’t recognize a NFL referee even if he worked every one of our favorite team’s games.

It’s sad that referees get so much “screen time” now that they have notoriety. It’s a sign of a game that has become too complicated for its own good, and players and coaches who are obsessed with pushing each and every rule to the limit on every play. Can you blame them? The culture of the league is rules-focused, and it sucks.




I think this is less of a result of officials "inserting themselves" and more of a development of the internet. "A few decades ago", we didn't have the breadth of knowledge available to us that we do now. How would you have found out an NFL officials tendencies and games worked 30 years ago? Track them yourself watching every game?

Bottom line, the officials are just trying to do the best they can with the rules and directives that the league gives them. If you are upset about the calls and the administration of the rules, be upset with the NFL, not the officials. Trust me, 99% of the time, they are calling it the way the league wants them to call it. Be mad at the league, not the officials.
Posted by MountainTiger
The foot of Mt. Belzoni
Member since Dec 2008
14661 posts
Posted on 12/17/18 at 9:51 am to
quote:


I don't know that this is true in the NFL. I'm not an NFL official, so I don't know for sure, but I thought they used the regular season crews.

You may be right but I thought I remembered game announcers talking about that the playoff crews were "all-star" crews. Maybe I misheard or maybe they changed it.
Posted by Geauxgurt
Member since Sep 2013
10427 posts
Posted on 12/17/18 at 12:00 pm to
I think the biggest issues most have are the inconsistencies, particularly for certain teams. Defenses that grab and hold a ridiculous amount (i.e. Cowboys and Seahawks) are rewarded with no calls on PI, Holding, illegal contact.

This is what has to stops. The team's MO for how they approach a game should have no bearing on how penalties are called. If the team chooses to push the limits, throw the flags and they will stop.

Also, the helmet to helmet calls are getting out of hand both ways, and it needs to be reviewable like in college. If the refs blatantly miss it, then the review officials should call it or overrule it and be consistent. That's how you show people you are really about player safety. Also, you don't punish a defender when the offensive player lowers their head causing the contact.
Posted by Rohan Gravy
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2017
17992 posts
Posted on 12/17/18 at 5:45 pm to
Yes, yes, and yes.
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