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re: I suck at capology—Can someone break down why we can’t designate Carr a post 6/1 cut?

Posted on 10/22/24 at 4:27 pm to
Posted by goatmilker
Castle Anthrax
Member since Feb 2009
77108 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 4:27 pm to
I'm almost positive this has all unfolded much as Benson told Gayle and told the FO. I can't imagine he didn't give Gayle a place to go to for advice outside of the FO. Every owner does over time. I also believe he left her a list of things not to do. That's a list I would like a peek at. And hell you know she has her own personal lawyer and I'm sure they talk football when alone. But soon...she needs to give a presser on the future of the Org.. We already know what Loomis would say.

Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
72457 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 4:37 pm to
quote:

I'm almost positive this has all unfolded much as Benson told Gayle and told the FO. I can't imagine he didn't give Gayle a place to go to for advice outside of the FO. Every owner does over time. I also believe he left her a list of things not to do. That's a list I would like a peek at. And hell you know she has her own personal lawyer and I'm sure they talk football when alone. But soon...she needs to give a presser on the future of the Org.. We already know what Loomis would say.


Goat, you really think she has the wherewithal to make hardcore decisions on an nfl front office? I just kinda have my doubts.
Posted by Geauxldilocks
Member since Aug 2018
6609 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 4:38 pm to
quote:

can't imagine he didn't give Gayle a place to go to for advice outside of the FO. Every owner does over time. I also believe he left her a list of things not to do. That's a list I would like a peek at


I’d like to think this was accurate, but considering the stress Old Man Benson was under and his cognitive decline I doubt he got around to this sound advice.

Nothing Gayle has done thus far indicates any outside counsel or even concern for the state of affairs.

Considering Loomis’ smug end of season gum smacking presser last year and doubling down on gaslighting last week “look beyond the results”, he acts like a man who has had no sit down accountable discussion with Gayle.

Until proven otherwise, all hope is lost and we have to be content with a “just happy to be in the club” franchise.
Posted by goatmilker
Castle Anthrax
Member since Feb 2009
77108 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 5:15 pm to
quote:

think she has the wherewithal to make hardcore decisions on an nfl front office?


I never said she did or doesn't. I do believe that Benson wouldn't leave her a blank page of instructions for after he was gone. Beyond that I don't know what if anything she is going to do. We all want Loomis gone and the cap addressed.
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
48613 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:21 pm to
quote:

I wasn’t optimistic on Rita at all, but she did fire 38 executive assistants.


That speaks to her being a problem, not a very good executive.

quote:

I am confident Rita would’ve made a change at GM years ago


Right after she moved the team to San Antonio.

quote:

the only thing saving him is Gayle’s love for him.


Or Gayle doing what Tom told her to do and trusting in Loomis.

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:22 pm to
quote:

You need to restructure Carr in order to field a team for 2025

I think we may have to extend Carr this offseason
Posted by yaboidarrell
westbank
Member since Feb 2017
6506 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 9:10 pm to
Commanders have a bright future
Posted by Chalkywhite84
New orleans
Member since Dec 2016
34918 posts
Posted on 10/22/24 at 9:29 pm to
quote:

NFL cap space for each team in 2025


I'm so sick of being 80-100mil in the negative to start every year.

Where are all of the loomis is a cap magician people now?

Loomis isn't going to change the way he runs a team.
Don't think Gayle would fire loomis.

Just have to hope loomis can hit on a young coach that can convince him of a better way.

Posted by Hot Carl
Prayers up for 3
Member since Dec 2005
62933 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 8:10 am to
quote:

I think we may have to extend Carr this offseason


That’s what it looks like. So, if I’m reading this right, we had to restructure him this past offseason to get under the ‘24 cap, but that puts him at $50 million for ‘25 and $60 for ‘26? Or around there. So, if we want to keep him, we can’t have him counting $50 million towards ‘25, so we’ll have to restructure.

But my brother was technically correct, though. We can designate him a post June 1st cut, and save about $30 million, but we’d be eating $21 million in dead cap money for ‘25, right? What about $26? Still more dead cap money for that year or would we be done with him after ‘25? Post June 1sts roll over to the next year if there’s still another year left, no? And if we owe him $60 million for ‘26 dead cap hit would be even more for that year? I think that’s what he’s not factoring in.

Besides the fact that we actually do have to play with a QB, and there’d be no money to spend on a FA, the upcoming draft class looks weak (even if it didn’t, we have so many holes on the team, that we’d have to wind up extending any rookie we drafted by the time the roster was ready to compete, thus eliminating one of the biggest benefit of drafting a rookie QB in the 1st place), and I don’t think Rattler or Heanor will be ready to start in ‘25, if ever.
Posted by Hot Carl
Prayers up for 3
Member since Dec 2005
62933 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 8:10 am to
Btw, thanks for all the help.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
61079 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 8:14 am to
quote:

but she did fire 38


This is not a positive. It’s one thing to want to fire someone that has done a poor job it’s another to fire everyone the second something doesn’t work exactly or over a minor mistake. Going through a new coach or GM every 2 years is also a recipe for disaster
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
32407 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 8:33 am to
quote:

You can. You get more money i believe cutting him 6/1 but someone may not want to pay him that and give up picks. Long story short, Lattimore, Kamara, Carr, Jordan can all but cut post 6/1 and save a fortune for this team. So the people saying they can’t get out of his contract are wrong. But, i don’t think they try and get out of it.



You realize even though cutting people post june-1, the money gets pushed into another year. You save money in 2025, but it then affects 2026 via dead money.

Lattimore
2025: 31.4mil cap hit
Pre June 1 cut: Makes it 31.6mil dead hit we lose money; 2026 - you save the 28mil cap hit he holds currently
Post June 1 cut: Saves 18mil, leaving 13.4mil dead cap; 2026 - 18.2mil dead cap.

Since AK is extended, the numbers below account for Carr, Lattimore, and Jordan.

So while doing that -- you saved 59mil in 2025, you eat nearly 44mil in dead space. And you have now made nearly 61.8mil in dead space for 2026 in those 3 players alone and are now down a QB and CB1
Posted by RawDog7984
Member since Oct 2019
2404 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 9:10 am to
People want the qb gone, even with dead money you still free up a bunch of money, Lattimore can be traded and get picks. Holding on to aging players out of fear of eating dead money is what got us here. They have koolaid and Taylor, the corners on this team have depth so cutting or trading Lattimore isn’t a major deal. They have to find money to get out from under this. So eating dead money isn’t an option. Whether you do it now or later it still needs to be done.
Posted by Geauxldilocks
Member since Aug 2018
6609 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 9:17 am to
quote:

This is not a positive


Never said it was a positive, but I’ll take a tyrant over a blind loyalist benevolent of the oft chance she hits lightning in a bottle.
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
32407 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 9:49 am to
quote:


People want the qb gon


People are not always bright.

quote:

even with dead money you still free up a bunch of money


we would still be over the cap, without a CB1 and QB1.

quote:

Lattimore can be traded and get picks


Okay, a 3rd rounder --- which I agree with. Now we're down Adebo and Lattimore. McKinley is still an unknown and Taylor has shown to be up and down---we've also finally found him the role he best fits him --- which is not the outside boundary guy.

quote:

Holding on to aging players out of fear of eating dead money is what got us here.


Multiple issues, not just one.
1. Drafting poorly destroyed depth and starters (whiffing on multiple 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders)
2. Pushing all in when we are not ready via borrowing money from the future (Going after Carr, etc)
3. Holding onto aging or injury prone players (Jordan and Ram for example)

quote:

They have to find money to get out from under this. So eating dead money isn’t an option. Whether you do it now or later it still needs to be done.


If you were to just not chase free agents and adjust money accordingly, draft well, this team can get out of the cap situation by 2026. Without cutting guys preemptively.
Posted by gsmith5651
Member since Feb 2016
570 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 10:09 am to
Most of our dead cap is due to players who are gone or washed up
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
61079 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 10:17 am to
quote:

Never said it was a positive, but I’ll take a tyrant over a blind loyalist benevolent of the oft chance she hits lightning in a bottle.


Because you are angry about the current state of the team (which is understandable) but that makes people irrational. If you think you’d prefer a tyrant, take a look at the Panthers. Are they better off? Is that what you want? Or look at Washington with Synder. I’ll take a hands off owner any day.
Posted by RawDog7984
Member since Oct 2019
2404 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 12:38 pm to
No they can’t. Why? Cause you’re almost 100 million currently over the cap. You speak of dead money being an issue on aging players yet the only contracts you can kick down the road to get under the cap next year are the aging players you speak of. You have to get out of the dead money and there’s 2k ways to do that. Extending them, creating void years, creating even more dead space. Or cut and trade the aging older players and reset it. Yes you have to draft well. But this team is so buried in cap debt that they still have to get rid of the contracts not extend them and create a further mess. You’re talking about creeping dead cap space by cutting players. Meanwhile you have to create more dead money further down the road to even get out of the current debt. Will they? Doubtful. Getting rid of Carr, Lattimore, Jordan, and Rams contract does that. Kamara was the other one but i can’t imagine he’s leaving now. That’s it. That’s all you can do. If you think kicking the can further down the road on those players then you’re part of the problem.
Posted by Rand AlThor
Member since Jan 2014
10432 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 1:12 pm to
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that you don’t actually get June 1 cap relief until June 1, even with the early designation. The team has to be cap compliant in March. Currently we are $55m over the cap.
Posted by Chief Hinge
There and Here
Member since Sep 2018
3237 posts
Posted on 10/23/24 at 1:16 pm to
quote:

Trades involving Lattimore have to also take place post 6/1. But all of that frees up appx 80 million dollars.


We have to be under the cap by the start of the 2025 league year.
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