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Started By
Message
re: Windhorst: Pelicans will be sellers at deadline, Bledsoe also involved
Posted on 1/28/21 at 11:01 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
Posted on 1/28/21 at 11:01 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:Except I replied to a dude saying he's not top 15, so who cares what someone else said about top 5, that is not what was being discussed in the post you replied to.
Nothing you’ve said is even remotely intelligent in regards to the original claim by Bronc that Bradley Beal is a top 5 player.
Yes or no, was AD a top 15 player before he went to LAL? I rest my case, done.
1
Posted on 1/28/21 at 11:39 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
I’ve asked what the hell he’s done in a near decade?
You mean besides morph into the best scorer in the league despite playing with g leaguers and the ghost of Westbrook?
I’ll give Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis, Jokic, and Durant, but beyond that Beal has as strong a case as anyone this season.
And if you can’t contextualize his situation to grasp why your argument about winning is retarded, that says more about your ability to watch basketball properly than anything you want to lob at others
This post was edited on 1/28/21 at 11:40 am
Posted on 1/28/21 at 11:59 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Beal could take 20 shots a game and make 10-14 FG's.
Why would a career sub-50% shooter suddenly start shooting 70% on lower volume?
Posted on 1/28/21 at 12:48 pm to shel311
quote:
Yes or no, was AD a top 15 player before he went to LAL? I rest my case, done.
You have no case for Beal. Trying to make a side by side comp is an exercise in futility, they are not the same.
AD is not the example you want to use. Finished Top 3 in MVP and DPOY, 1st team All-NBA multiple time All Star and yes even made the playoffs in the West.
His best teammate popped his Achilles less than a years worth of games in.
Beal played with a true All Star/NBA level player for years and couldn’t win...and one could argue he had the better FO and coaching staff vs AD here.
AD is an elite two way player, Beal is not, though he’s an offensive star.
And once again, AD was the best player on the Lakers last year and frankly the best player in the world last year. The Lakers couldn’t make the playoffs with an all timer before Davis arrived.
quote:I said he was top 15, if you want to reread my post that you responded to.
Except I replied to a dude saying he's not top 15,
But to circle back around, shel, you have Beal as top 5 player? Do you have him ahead of the list that I made in response to Bronc?
If not, I rest my case.
This post was edited on 1/28/21 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 1/28/21 at 12:57 pm to Bronc
quote:So you honestly think Beal is better than AD, Curry, Luka, Embiid, Harden and Lillard? I can see a case made for edge of top 10, but not top 5.
You mean besides morph into the best scorer in the league despite playing with g leaguers and the ghost of Westbrook?
I’ll give Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis, Jokic, and Durant, but beyond that Beal has as strong a case as anyone this season.
And if you can’t contextualize his situation to grasp why your argument about winning is retarded, that says more about your ability to watch basketball properly than anything you want to lob at others
Posted on 1/28/21 at 1:03 pm to Bronc
quote:
You mean besides morph into the best scorer in the league despite playing with g leaguers and the ghost of Westbrook?
He’s leading the league in scoring becasue he’s playing with that roster.
He’s not a better scorer than Durant, possibly top 3 ever, Harden, Curry, LeBron or Dame.
quote:
I’ll give Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis, Jokic, and Durant, but beyond that Beal has as strong a case as anyone this season.
Embiid is an MVP front runner this year. Harden, Curry and Dame are still themselves. It’s hip to shite on Curry and Harden on this site, but Dame? How many times does he need to prove y’all wrong?
quote:
And if you can’t contextualize his situation to grasp why your argument about winning is retarded, that says more about your ability to watch basketball properly than anything you want to lob at others
Yes, you’re right, winning doesn’t matter in a sport where 1 player can turn a franchise around into a perennial contender.
My god, you talk about conceptualizing when you don’t even understand winning basketball isnt about stats.
But you’re too concerned about having responses being “lobbed” to your ridiculous claims that sometimes the players themselves help create the situation, unless he’s a special case in several dozen or so disgruntled Star players in the last 30 years that bares no responsibility.
When Wall and the Wizards imploded, why didn’t Beal demand out? At the very least, he enabled the situation to get worse. How is he any different than KAT? Or Booker before the light went on for him last year?
What’s going to go on, and has been since the Pels really started to be linked to him, is that posters here are going to lionize him, which is perfectly human response to seeing a significant upgrade at the position.
Posted on 1/28/21 at 1:44 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:This is the point you keep missing. Poster said he wasn't top 15 and gave exactly ONE reason for that, he's not a winner. So yes, my AD comp was very spot on based on the reasoning that poster gave.
You have no case for Beal. Trying to make a side by side comp is an exercise in futility, they are not the same.
AD is not the example you want to use. Finished Top 3 in MVP and DPOY, 1st team All-NBA multiple time All Star and yes even made the playoffs in the West.
quote:
And once again, AD was the best player on the Lakers last year and frankly the best player in the world last year.
Posted on 1/28/21 at 1:46 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
AD, Curry, Luka, Embiid, Harden and Lillard?
As of today, this season, yes.
Beal is out performing all of them under the context he is playing in.
Give Beal any of those teams those players have and he would be even more efficient and looking like an MVP front runner.
Posted on 1/28/21 at 2:08 pm to shel311
quote:
Beal is top 15
quote:
There's certainly not 15 dudes better then Beal.
This is you directly responding to my declaration of Beal place in the player rankings.
Furthermore, regardless of responding to a different poster, I’ve already laid out why, with context that the comp is inaccurate. Their situations are very different as Beal for most of his time in Washington had at least one consistent All Star level talent next to him.
I can only explain it to you, I can’t understand it for you.
Posted on 1/28/21 at 2:09 pm to Bronc
quote:Not sure I agree. I think you are simply looking at stats. It is alot easier to score more points with significantly more shots and less scorers around you. His defense is still terrible as well.
As of today, this season, yes.
Beal is out performing all of them under the context he is playing in.
Give Beal any of those teams those players have and he would be even more efficient and looking like an MVP front runner.
Posted on 1/28/21 at 2:16 pm to Bronc
quote:
Beal is out performing all of them under the context he is playing in.
This is just a flat out wrong statement. First, not one team would trade any of those players for Beal straight up. I also think the Wizards would trade Beal for any one of those players straight up. Deep down, you know you wouldn't trade any of those players for Beal straight up.
I get that you are using stats to boost your argument and not looking at what the players have accomplished but even that doesn't add up.
AD is on the defending champs who are cruising to wins right now so regular season stats can't be used to judge his value. Steph has the Warriors competing and their roster isn't much better than the Wizards. Luka is averaging 27.4/9.4/9.7 for a team that has been decimated by injury and COVID as well. Embiid may be the MVP favorite with a PER above 30. Harden obviously is in a different situation now but we all know that he would be putting up insane numbers on that Wizards roster, and Lillard has a higher efg %, 3pt %, and ft %, while averaging 2 more assists per game.
Beal is a very good player but let's not get hyperbolic with calling him a top 5 guy. You may feel that way, but that opinion is representative of a very, very small minority.
Posted on 1/28/21 at 2:21 pm to Bronc
quote:
As of today, this season, yes. Beal is out performing all of them under the context he is playing in. Give Beal any of those teams those players have and he would be even more efficient and looking like an MVP front runner.
Or more precisely. he’s been doing what’s he’s been doing since Wall got hurt, he gets his numbers.
Give Beal any of those teams, and they are worse off, save maybe Harden since Durant is there. The Lakers wouldn’t be nearly as good with a Beal for AD swap.
Maybe my memory is fading but Internet buzz has been how Golden State is a lottery team without Curry, & Dallas is full of super talented guys?
Embiid would be interesting but Simmons moving to the five doesn’t make him a good rim protector.
Posted on 1/28/21 at 2:51 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
We have 2 pages of discussion about a player we’d have to buy HUGELY in a thread about how we will be sellers.
Lol.
Lol.
Posted on 1/28/21 at 3:08 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
in a thread about how we will be sellers.
That article someone posted a few days ago where Griffin said he wasn't sure when he'd become a buyer made me feel better. I just don't see Beal as the guy that turns the Pels into champs. I really kind of feel the Pels need a floor general more than a scorer.
You have 2 amazing offensive weapons in Ingram and Zion, you should be able to add an elite 3 point shooter to replace JJ in time. You don't add a 20+ ppg scoring guard to that mix, you want someone that's more like 16/11. CP3 but not as much of a scorer, or Rondo with a good enough shot to move the defense and be a threat off ball.
This post was edited on 1/28/21 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 1/28/21 at 3:32 pm to TigerinATL
I agree with you, ATL.
A LOT of very haughty posters in here would end up with egg on their faces in a couple of years if we “unloaded the war chest” for a player like him.
A LOT of very haughty posters in here would end up with egg on their faces in a couple of years if we “unloaded the war chest” for a player like him.
Posted on 1/28/21 at 3:37 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I really kind of feel the Pels need a floor general more than a scorer.
Agree and while Beal does posses some legit playmaking ability and at time when the Wizards locker room had a fallout with Wall, the Wizards took on more of share the ball philosophy with Beal at the helm, but he’s a scorer at heart.
And of course, are we really sure we want Zion to get less touches?
This post was edited on 1/29/21 at 8:29 am
Posted on 1/28/21 at 3:44 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
You have 2 amazing offensive weapons in Ingram and Zion, you should be able to add an elite 3 point shooter to replace JJ in time. You don't add a 20+ ppg scoring guard to that mix, you want someone that's more like 16/11. CP3 but not as much of a scorer, or Rondo with a good enough shot to move the defense and be a threat off ball.
Terry Rozier would be nice. He's been shooting lights out from 3. He's not the floor general type PG though, but he's going to take just 3 more shots than Lonzo will and score 19 points instead of 12.
The PG you describe is not going to be available via trade. We are going to have to draft him. Maybe we already did.
Posted on 1/28/21 at 3:50 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
The PG you describe is not going to be available via trade. We are going to have to draft him. Maybe we already did.
Agreed. They need to have some idea if Kira can be that by the end of this season and if he's not that guy, they need to trade up in this top heavy draft for the player that is.
Posted on 1/28/21 at 3:51 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
The PG you describe is not going to be available via trade. We are going to have to draft him. Maybe we already did.
Are we sure Kyle Lowry won’t be available? Raptors are interested in Ball...
PGs like Lowry, Conley, don’t grow on trees. Pass first but legit scoring/shooting threats and solid defenders.
Posted on 1/28/21 at 5:19 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
Are we sure Kyle Lowry won’t be available?
Lowry doesn't fit the timeline, but he could be a good proof of concept and mentor. You'd also probably need to send out Lonzo and Bledsoe to make salary work which would elevate Kira to backup PG.
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