- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Who wants a #HOTTAKE?
Posted on 11/5/17 at 10:36 pm to Crewz
Posted on 11/5/17 at 10:36 pm to Crewz
quote:
Crewz
Why are you so down on Boogie considering our team is a .500 team with the worst TS % guard in the league in the last 35 games? This guy is supposed to be the only other guy on the roster worth a crap and he’s playing as bad as anyone.
Just curious cause I’ve seen the same “Boogie is a loser” commentary on this board from you. I’d be interested to hear commentary on that from someone who can address it instead of ducking any facts that don’t fit the narrative.
ETA: ironically Tyreke Evans has been a sharpshooter in that same time span
This post was edited on 11/5/17 at 10:45 pm
1
Posted on 11/5/17 at 11:08 pm to ShamelessPel
I fully understand that Boogie has terrible players around him and that his stupid, yet talented brand of basketball is better than anything else the Pels have outside of AD by a mile.
But I still hate the way he plays and I don't believe all his bad habits would go away if he had better players around him. We all value different things - that doesn't make someone right and the other wrong. We just have preferences. For instance, give me a less skilled but smarter player like Al Horford or Marc Gasol any day. I will get worse counting numbers from them, but I will enjoy watching them much more. Or, to be more accurate, be frustrated far less.
But I still hate the way he plays and I don't believe all his bad habits would go away if he had better players around him. We all value different things - that doesn't make someone right and the other wrong. We just have preferences. For instance, give me a less skilled but smarter player like Al Horford or Marc Gasol any day. I will get worse counting numbers from them, but I will enjoy watching them much more. Or, to be more accurate, be frustrated far less.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 7:20 am to Crewz
quote:
I just don't think the team would have been much worse without him.
i tend to agree, at least offensively.
quote:
Dell had a bunch of non-ideal choices (his own fault, BTW) - but he had choices
sure. just would have taken a tremendous amount of courage (and job security) to let Holiday walk. makes sense on the cap sheet. not sure how it plays in the locker room w/ Davis and UFA Cousins.
i dont blame him for keeping Holiday; like you say he had put himself in a corner. it is just a culmination of years of bad luck and shortsighted moves.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 9:48 am to corndeaux
quote:
sure. just would have taken a tremendous amount of courage (and job security) to let Holiday walk. makes sense on the cap sheet. not sure how it plays in the locker room w/ Davis and UFA Cousins.
i dont blame him for keeping Holiday; like you say he had put himself in a corner. it is just a culmination of years of bad luck and shortsighted moves.
This is just the problem. Dell Demps' job security should not be entering the equation when figuring out moves going forward.
There has been some bad luck, but there's also self-inflicted wounds. Monty and Dell allowed QPon to tear his knee to shreds in 14-15 instead of shelving him for instance. Who knows if we give out the Hill albatross with a healthy QPon on the roster.
This post was edited on 11/6/17 at 9:58 am
Posted on 11/6/17 at 9:58 am to corndeaux
To me, it doesn't matter if you make AD and Boogie happy in July of 2017. Boogie has to be happy in July of 2018. AD, 2019.
You go give them a roster they can win with and continue to win with moving forward and they are happy.
Do you think if Jrue continues to suck, they will say "Yeah, we are bad, but I begged for Jrue to stay, so its kinda my fault so I will re-sign."
Hell no. They will say, "This team sucks and it's managements fault."
Players are terrible evaluators of other players. Their job title is 'player', yours is 'GM'. Who gives a flying frick what they say. I won't let him have that excuse either.
You go give them a roster they can win with and continue to win with moving forward and they are happy.
Do you think if Jrue continues to suck, they will say "Yeah, we are bad, but I begged for Jrue to stay, so its kinda my fault so I will re-sign."
Hell no. They will say, "This team sucks and it's managements fault."
Players are terrible evaluators of other players. Their job title is 'player', yours is 'GM'. Who gives a flying frick what they say. I won't let him have that excuse either.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:12 am to NOLAbaby
I fricking hate Jrue and am glad that he's getting tons of negative national pub lately as well.
Simmons, Lowe, Cucks in In the Know and Young Tate Frazier have all blasted Jrue and his awful contract this last weekend plus
Simmons, Lowe, Cucks in In the Know and Young Tate Frazier have all blasted Jrue and his awful contract this last weekend plus
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:12 am to shel311
quote:
Also, how would we get Teague or Hill? We didn't have room in the cap, we were under $10mil available I believe if we let Jrue go and operated under the cap.
Had the Pels let Jrue walk, and Dante, they would have had $15M in cap space. Stretch Asik, unload QPon, and they are at around $25M in cap space. Probably could have gotten rid of Ajinca if necessary.
They absolutely could have found a way to get $25M in cap space very easily, and up to $30 if they were willing to give up more picks. And that's talking about not doing a S&T for Jrue.
Imagine being able to sign Teague to $19M, and Simmons to $7.
Teague
Moore
Simmons
AD
Cousins
Wouldn't have had a bench though.
Could have used your $25-30M to sign Rondo to $6M, Simmons to $7M, and maybe made a trade for someone using the extra cap space (Ajinca for Bazemore)
Rondo
Bazemore/Moore
Simmons/Solo
AD/Diallo
Cousins
minimum contracts after that.
Mo Speights was a minimum contract guy.
Tyler Zeller was a minimum contract guy.
There were many routes they could have gone this offseason. They put all their eggs in Jrue, and that will handcuff us in the future just like Asik has.
Crewz said it best before the summer:
quote:
Giving Holiday a contract at the max, or close to it, would limit the flexibility the Pelicans have moving forward, as they would be committing nearly $90 million to just three players if Boogie re-signs next summer. And god forbid Jrue’s injuries return, a max deal for Holiday could become the worst deal in a league full of bad ones.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:18 am to TeddyPadillac
Here's the entire article on Pels options if they let Jrue walk, written way back in March. And since then, even more guard options opened up like Kyrie, Bradley, Bledsoe, etc.
LINK /
As I said in the piece, you are choosing the lesser of two evils. There was no GREAT option. But there were options.
LINK /
As I said in the piece, you are choosing the lesser of two evils. There was no GREAT option. But there were options.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:38 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:2 things:
Had the Pels let Jrue walk, and Dante, they would have had $15M in cap space. Stretch Asik, unload QPon, and they are at around $25M in cap space. Probably could have gotten rid of Ajinca if necessary.
They absolutely could have found a way to get $25M in cap space very easily, and up to $30 if they were willing to give up more picks. And that's talking about not doing a S&T for Jrue.
1. Why couldn't we sign Jrue and still make all the moves/dumps you mentioned?
2. I'll take Jrue over Teague, personally. Especially when you factor in defense.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 10:54 am to shel311
quote:
1. Why couldn't we sign Jrue and still make all the moves/dumps you mentioned?
Read the article Crewz posted. Had we signed Jrue and treid to operate under the cap, we would have had less money to work with than operating over the cap and having all of the exceptions available to use.
quote:
2. I'll take Jrue over Teague, personally. Especially when you factor in defense.
I'd take Teague over Jrue any day, and i've said that many of times before. Teague is a better 3 point shooter, and gets to the free throw line, and is cheaper than Jrue. Teague can hold his own on defense.
I'm not dissappointed we signed Jrue. I'm dissappointed we signed him to a 5 year $125M contract. If he wanted 5 years, then it should have been $100M. If he wanted $25M, then it should have been for 3 years with maybe an option for the 4th.
No one outside of true stars should be given 5 year contracts.
The main thing is we likely would be no worse this year had we let Jrue walk. Letting him walk would have set us up to have much more flexibility. We didn't need to make AD/Cousins happy this summer, we need to at the end of this season, and next offseason.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:06 am to TeddyPadillac
We absolutely needed to make Cousins happy this season. Hate on Jrue all you want, and I do at times, but we absolutely need him to figure this out if we want to be a playoff team. Being in the playoffs at all greatly increases our chances of keeping Cousins imo. Jumping from a 30 win team to a slightly less shitty 30 win team isn’t very exciting.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:09 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I'm dissappointed we signed him to a 5 year $125M contract. If he wanted 5 years, then it should have been $100M. If he wanted $25M, then it should have been for 3 years with maybe an option for the 4th.
That was probably the biggest miscalculation by Demps. If we offered his market value of $18ish, would Jrue take someone else's $18 because he felt disrespected? Yes. But if they only offered 3 years in an offseason where comparable players got deals of 3 years or less, would he take someone elses 3/$60 instead of the Pels 3/$75? I seriously doubt it.
This post was edited on 11/6/17 at 11:10 am
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:16 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
We absolutely needed to make Cousins happy this season
What would make him happier?
Sign Jrue to a retarded contract, minimums everywhere else, win 44 games and make the playoffs but have absolutely no flexibitlity to do anything in the offseason but resign Cousins and minimums,
or,
Let Jrue walk, have a game plan to surround AD/Cousins with a certain kind of player, try to sign guys like Rondo, Simmons, Tucker, Hardaway, SwaggyP, etc., maybe make the playoffs, maybe not, but still move towards improving all year, and then have room to sign some decent FA's next offseason.
Right now, we pretty much committed to the current team for the foreseable future. There's very littel we can do to get better outside of getting hurt guys back and hoping minimum contract guys work out great.
I think Cousins and AD for that matter, would have appreciated an approach that centered around them and looked to improve over the next 2-3 years with a clear goal in tact, and the flexibility and assets to attain them.
The team is AD and Cousins, and then role players. You can't pay a role player $26M a year.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:30 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
Dell Demps' job security should not be entering the equation when figuring out moves going forward.
i agree. but very few will make decisions that could jeopardize their short term security.
this is where poor ownership is an issue
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:40 am to Crewz
sure. they have to believe they can win with this team going forward, not in summer of 2017. and players are notoriously bad judgers of each other.
same time
is incredibly naive. very easy to say from where we sit.
you're building a 2 man team. you want those 2 guys to buy in. not to mention that if Davis says "frick this shite" pro ball in NO might die.
that doesnt mean Demps cant present alternatives if he thinks Holiday is a bad fit/contract. again, these types of decisions are where having ownership that has a clue comes into play.
same time
quote:
Who gives a flying frick what they say
is incredibly naive. very easy to say from where we sit.
you're building a 2 man team. you want those 2 guys to buy in. not to mention that if Davis says "frick this shite" pro ball in NO might die.
that doesnt mean Demps cant present alternatives if he thinks Holiday is a bad fit/contract. again, these types of decisions are where having ownership that has a clue comes into play.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 11:59 am to corndeaux
If they say, "Bring Jrue back!"
And you don't, you go get Rubio instead, or Rondo and Miles, whatever... and the team wins. Meanwhile, Jrue is playing like hot trash elsewhere, you think they will bolt because you didn't do the obviously wrong thing that they wanted?
You are the GM. You do what you think is best for the team. If you are right, players will follow. Or, you listen to Deron Williams and sink the franchise for the next 10 years.
And you don't, you go get Rubio instead, or Rondo and Miles, whatever... and the team wins. Meanwhile, Jrue is playing like hot trash elsewhere, you think they will bolt because you didn't do the obviously wrong thing that they wanted?
You are the GM. You do what you think is best for the team. If you are right, players will follow. Or, you listen to Deron Williams and sink the franchise for the next 10 years.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 12:09 pm to Crewz
quote:
You are the GM. You do what you think is best for the team. If you are right, players will follow. Or, you listen to Deron Williams and sink the franchise for the next 10 years.
exactly how i feel about it.
Players play, coaches coach, GM's manage a roster. When all three are synced up with the same goals for the team, you get a winning team.
Instead we have players knighting to pay a guy a retarded contract, a coach who's a proven loser, and a GM that can't even help the proven loser he hired b/c he surrounds the coach with players that dont' fit what the coach wants to do, and thus we have a team that doesn't play near to what their talent suggests they should.
Posted on 11/6/17 at 12:11 pm to ShamelessPel
Cousins(and now AD) seem to have more respect for Rondo than anyone else on the team.
I think it is compeltely reasonable that had Demps signed Rondo, made the case to Cousins and AD personally that based on current evidence and his demanding price, Jrue was not the best path forward for the team. Than you just make smart decisions and let the winning help ease any remaining lumps. Then you are also much better positioned to sell Cousins this upcoming offseason by presenting him with additional moves you can make to ensure he would be signing with a further improving team.
My concern here is that because of Jrue, our offseason will once again be poised to be scrapping the bottom of the barrel to fill out the roster next year.
I think it is compeltely reasonable that had Demps signed Rondo, made the case to Cousins and AD personally that based on current evidence and his demanding price, Jrue was not the best path forward for the team. Than you just make smart decisions and let the winning help ease any remaining lumps. Then you are also much better positioned to sell Cousins this upcoming offseason by presenting him with additional moves you can make to ensure he would be signing with a further improving team.
My concern here is that because of Jrue, our offseason will once again be poised to be scrapping the bottom of the barrel to fill out the roster next year.
This post was edited on 11/6/17 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 11/6/17 at 12:40 pm to Crewz
quote:
And you don't, you go get Rubio instead, or Rondo and Miles, whatever... and the team wins. Meanwhile, Jrue is playing like hot trash elsewhere...
lots of ifs and buts there. what if you get the new guys and they play like trash too? what if you never trade for Cousins because Davis+Holiday small ball was winning around a .500 clip? what if Holiday starts hitting at his career %s? what if....
im not excusing Demps from making bad decisions at all. it's just easy to say now "go get player x instead of Holiday b/c he is playing like arse" and, yes, we are all aware you wouldn't have signed him back in march.
for Demps- if he and his staff honestly thought bringing Holiday back, at that price, was the best move, that's their call to make. if they didnt think so, it is their responsibility to come up with an alternative plan, make it happen, and sell everyone on why it is better.
quote:
You are the GM. You do what you think is best for the team
again, easy to say in a vacuum. the entire Pels organization is a shitshow. most people arent going to have the courage of their convictions if they dont think they have support of their bosses to make tough calls
Posted on 11/6/17 at 1:05 pm to corndeaux
quote:
lots of ifs and buts there. what if you get the new guys and they play like trash too?
Well if you don't sign them to stupid contracts like 5 years for $125M, you might have some flexibility to make some changes during the season, or in the offseason.
What we did this offseason was cement our team of core guys (AD/Cousins/Jrue/Solo) for the next 3 years, assuming Cousins stays. We will start every season for the next 2 years with negative cap space, as well as no assets good enough to get rid of the shitty contracts you already have. Even Moore isn't really tradeable b/c he still has too much left on his contract and no one wants to be tied down to a role player for that long.
Our idiot GM is handing out mutli year deals to role players, where as other teams trying to compete are locking up their stars, and surrounding them with role players either on cheap deals, short deals, or both giving the team some flexibility each year.
Solo, unproven guy that can't shoot, here's 4 years $50M. Get similar production from Dante.
Moore, solid bench player, here's 4 years $32M. There's ton's of minimum contracts that can do what he does.
Jrue, role player with injury issues and plenty of tape on him being an inconsistent offensive player, here's 5 years $125M. His brother is outplaying him this year on his 2 year $9M contract.
Asik, role player at best who was already starting to decline, here's 5 years $58M even though no one else wanted to give this guy a contract. Minimum contract center is better than him, and was even when we gave him the contract as i pointed out in many many posts.
Ajinca, role player at best, here's 4 years $20M. Could have found a minimum guy for a year to do what he does or bettter.
Why would you want to be tied down to a role player for 4 years?
Page 3 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News