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We have 2 guys in the top 100 3 point shooting % - that's bad
Posted on 1/17/23 at 9:27 am
Posted on 1/17/23 at 9:27 am
Was looking through the list of top 100 NBA 3 point shooters percentage and noticed that we only have two guys. Ingram would be in there too but he doesn't qualify.
LINK
For reference, looking at the other contenders and teams of interest:
Boston - 5
Memphis - 4
Milwaukee - 4
Sixers - 5
Nuggets - 5
Nets - 5
Sacramento -3
Clippers - 5
Suns - 6
Mavericks - 3
Lakers - 3
The only other good team with the same number as us is Cleveland with 2.
Now look at the bottom feeders.
Detroit - 2
Orlando - 2
Houston - 1
Spurs - 3
Wizards - 3
We need shooting more than anything IMO. Best teams can bring dudes off the bench that hit 3s. Our guys can't.
I've been hesitant to be in favor of trading one of our guys, but we have too much overlap in Dyson, Herb, Jose, and Naji. All good defenders but below average shooters.
LINK
For reference, looking at the other contenders and teams of interest:
Boston - 5
Memphis - 4
Milwaukee - 4
Sixers - 5
Nuggets - 5
Nets - 5
Sacramento -3
Clippers - 5
Suns - 6
Mavericks - 3
Lakers - 3
The only other good team with the same number as us is Cleveland with 2.
Now look at the bottom feeders.
Detroit - 2
Orlando - 2
Houston - 1
Spurs - 3
Wizards - 3
We need shooting more than anything IMO. Best teams can bring dudes off the bench that hit 3s. Our guys can't.
I've been hesitant to be in favor of trading one of our guys, but we have too much overlap in Dyson, Herb, Jose, and Naji. All good defenders but below average shooters.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 9:29 am
Posted on 1/17/23 at 9:31 am to ghost2most
quote:
We need shooting more than anything IMO
Going to disagree here. It's beating a dead horse, but we need our two best players back more than anything. From an analytics standpoint we've got a guy in Zion that can get to the rim at will and a guy in BI that's one of the best mid range shooters in the game.
I'd wager that their points per possession on those respective shots is right up there with the best 3 point shooters in the league.
Sure, adding a player that's what DG is in his own mind would be fantastic- but it's not a "need" if we've got our best 5 for any sort of extended period of time. Feels like we've had that for about 4 or 5 games this year
Posted on 1/17/23 at 9:35 am to Riseupfromtherubble
quote:Zion at the rim, certainly. BI mid-range, definitely not.
I'd wager that their points per possession on those respective shots is right up there with the best 3 point shooters in the league.
But it's less about that comparison to a 3pt shooter, and more about a comparison to other mid-range shooters. Especially once you factor late shot clock type situations, that is where the BI mid-range becomes super valuable, even if it is technically a lesser efficient shot than a 3 or shot at the rim. It still has lots of value.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 10:03 am to ghost2most
quote:
We need shooting more than anything IMO.
We need to get our best players back more than anything
Posted on 1/17/23 at 10:06 am to Riseupfromtherubble
quote:
Sure, adding a player that's what DG is in his own mind would be fantastic- but it's not a "need" if we've got our best 5 for any sort of extended period of time. Feels like we've had that for about 4 or 5 games this year
It's starting to look super unrealistic that we'll ever have our top 5 together for any significant stretch.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 10:06 am to STEVED00
We definitely do need more shooting though. In the playoffs when games slow down and teams are allowed to get a little more physical, you need to be able to space the floor.
Adding another 40% shooter into Herb’s starting spot would have 4 guys who can absolutely murder you from 3 (Jonas has his nights he goes berserk), which would force teams to not double/triple Zion inside and they wouldn’t be able to get more physical with him.
Adding another 40% shooter into Herb’s starting spot would have 4 guys who can absolutely murder you from 3 (Jonas has his nights he goes berserk), which would force teams to not double/triple Zion inside and they wouldn’t be able to get more physical with him.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 10:40 am
Posted on 1/17/23 at 10:32 am to Riseupfromtherubble
quote:
From an analytics standpoint we've got a guy in Zion that can get to the rim at will and a guy in BI that's one of the best mid range shooters in the game.
I'd wager that their points per possession on those respective shots is right up there with the best 3 point shooters in the league.
Zion is the real deal. On BI, here are some interesting CAREER stats. Notice the midrange.
0-3'...66.3%
3-10'...36.6% (Same as 24.4% from 3)
10-16'...43.1% (Same as 28.75% from 3)
16-3Pt...43.9% (Same as 29.27% from 3)
3 Pt...36.5% which equals 54.7% from any 2-pt range
Bottom line: BI MUST follow the...rule of 3...and shoot more 3-pters and 3 footers. If he doesn't start shooting many more 3s and cut back shooting from the distance of 3' to 3-pt line...we have an analytics guy that needs to be replaced.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 10:40 am to Dinky Mulberry
quote:
16-3Pt...43.9% (Same as 29.27% from 3)
Overall I agree with you. The ball should keep moving until we find a great shot. The context this leaves out is compare that vs. a covered, pull up 3. When defenses actually try that mid range might be the best shot we can get in a given possession.
Additional context is what's better, a BI midrange or a low confidence Herb 3? Maybe the answer to that question is put the ball in Herb's hands and put BI spotting up for 3, but you can't do that every play.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 10:47 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Additional context is what's better, a BI midrange or a low confidence Herb 3?
Herb is shooting horribly from 3 this year. But even at his current 29.6%, which translates to the same as 44.4% from a shot taken from 2-pt range...we are actually better off with Herb shooting a scud missile from 3...than we are with BI shooting from any distance over his entire career...except if BI is shooting from 3' or less...or from 3-pt distance. That's a scary thought to consider.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 11:06 am
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:10 am to ghost2most
This never would've happened if Fred Vinson was still on the Pelicans staff.
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 11:11 am
Posted on 1/17/23 at 11:43 am to TotesMcGotes
quote:
This never would've happened if Fred Vinson was still on the Pelicans staf
From what little time I have been around here, it seems to me that by mentioning FV, you might well be risking conjuring up an appearance by "he, who shall not be mentioned".
Unless, of course, he is already here !!!
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:01 pm to ghost2most
Definitley feel like Lonzo/Bi's growth as shooters gave Griff a bit of over-confidence that Vinson could just overhaul whoever we get that can't shoot.
But I do agree, this team is gonna eventually need to consolidate some of those bench players into guys that balance out the rotation better with floor spacing.
But I do agree, this team is gonna eventually need to consolidate some of those bench players into guys that balance out the rotation better with floor spacing.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 12:35 pm to Dinky Mulberry
quote:One funny thing I've noticed is we all hail Vinson as the GOAT shot doctor, but we also always complain about missing FTs and 3s
From what little time I have been around here, it seems to me that by mentioning FV, you might well be risking conjuring up an appearance by "he, who shall not be mentioned".
Posted on 1/17/23 at 1:21 pm to Bronc
quote:
But I do agree, this team is gonna eventually need to consolidate some of those bench players into guys that balance out the rotation better with floor spacing.
Agreed, whenever Dyson becomes more comfortable on the offensive end, we'd be better suited giving Jose's minutes to a shooter.
Once Dyson shows that he can finish consistently at the rim, he basically becomes a longer version of what Jose is now.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 5:25 pm to STEVED00
quote:
We need to get our best players back more than anything
At this point if we could just have one of our two best players available most nights I would take it. These games down 3 starters are draining.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 5:29 pm to Broski
Posted on 1/17/23 at 5:57 pm to ghost2most
Our 2 guys on the list (Trey and CJ) are 30th and 31st, and if BI qualified, he would be 3rd. The only teams that have a better trio are Denver, Boston and the Golden State Warriors, so I think our shooting is better than you're giving us credit for. The Lakers have 3, but their best is 57th. Even though the Suns have a lot of good 3pt shooters, their top 3 are comparable to ours. Their 4th best is 65th on their team. With Zion and Val being so great at 2 pointers, we don't need that many more shooters. 1 more would be good, but I don't know that it is far and away our biggest need. A rim protector might benefit us more.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 6:32 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Additional context is what's better, a BI midrange or a low confidence Herb 3?
The team would be better off if Herb never took another 3 point shot. Context is important given that no 3 Herb ever shoots is contested. It's kind of hard to fathom just how bad he's been. B.I. could leave the fadeaway baseline mid range alone. Those are typically late in the shot clock and contested. Super low percentage shot. But his pull up, free throw line mid range is deadly, he should never take that out of his bag and he never will and we should never complain about it
To think the mid range doesn't have its place as a weapon is just silly. Imagine telling that to Jokic, Embid, Durant, Kawhi, and DeRozen and see what they'd say. "But but but a 12ft 2 pointer is a 49.33356% shot which equates to a 39.72332% 3 pointer." People can gtfo with that analytic when you're not factoring in contested or not. Or 10 other factors for that matter.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 7:13 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
To think the mid range doesn't have its place as a weapon is just silly. Imagine telling that to Jokic, Embid, Durant, Kawhi, and DeRozen and see what they'd say. "But but but a 12ft 2 pointer is a 49.33356% shot which equates to a 39.72332% 3 pointer." People can gtfo with that analytic when you're not factoring in contested or not. Or 10 other factors for that matter.
People are dumb. If you don't shoot mid range shots people aren't going to guard that part of the court and focus on taking away the "better" shots making those harder. I wish the NBA never put in the 3 point line.
Posted on 1/17/23 at 8:04 pm to armsdealer
quote:
People are dumb. If you don't shoot mid range shots people aren't going to guard that part of the court and focus on taking away the "better" shots making those harder. I wish the NBA never put in the 3 point line.
Nobody sez you should never take a midrange shot...but just curious...why do you think NBA teams are shooting more & more 3s every year, relative to 2-pt shots...over the past several years?
This post was edited on 1/17/23 at 8:14 pm
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