re: This season is a waste and this draft class is loaded with potential all stars.

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There are far more teams sneaking in the playoffs and then growing over the next few years than there are one and done that you are referring to. Making the playoffs is a sign of growth for a franchise--especially one like ours where the perception is that we always suck and never win.

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The common differentiating factor between teams that sneak in and grow and teams that sneak in and stagnate or regress is talent. If the team has a strong and deep roster of talent, then yeah, they can continue to grow until they hit their ceiling as a squad. Then once again you'll need an injection of talent to continue improving.

Are we really arguing Phoenix takes the leap they do without acquiring CP3 in trade? Or, is more the case, you have a young team still improving adding a top 15 player to the roster, and the second best floor raiser in the game.

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when has tanking ever worked out for any team? Far more teams have shown success by taking those baby steps and building culture over time.

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You serious? Building through the draft is the core way any non-destination market builds their team. It is basically impossible to build any other way as a small market. And when it comes to complimenting that with trades/FA, having assets to spend is key. And having a 10ish pick is a nice sweetner.

Can you give me any examples of small market teams that lacked strong talent after their first 3 or so players that turned into contenders without adding additional talent? Did it all just by "experience"

Cause I can't.

And fact is, whether it is to use for a trade or to keep and develop. The Pels landing another good pick vs losing it is going to be much better for this franchise long-term than being this year's Orlando or New York(assuming Griff doesn't mismanage it). Then trying to run it back indefinitely on the hope and prayer the magical alchemy of "experience" will outplay what that pick could have given us in talent.

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I would love to see this theory vetted out and published in real research documentation. Even at that point, I would be dubious as to the purpose. High level athletics are damaging to your body.

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So basically you admit that these things exist but aren't going to accept sports medicine findings on progressive fatigue and intensity load as applied to the NBA because...you, the non-medical non-expert have cast an uninformed value judgement on the very research you already admit is true.

I think that sums up the value of continuing this conversation.

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another mature instant contributing player in the mid-first round.

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They only keep the pick if they don't make the playoffs. Whether they use it or trade it, it's an asset I'd rather have than getting swept in the 1st round. Just like tanking from where the Pels are at is complicated. Playing just enough to get "experience" but not make the playoffs will be complicated too, especially if Zion returns this season.

Honestly the best thing we can hope for now is Ingram's ankle lingers for a few weeks followed by JV getting a similarly minor but still out 2 weeks injury. That hopefully keeps them far enough out of the play in that they take the pedal off the gas.

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or the magic of an experienced team now adding Zion and another mature instant contributing player in the mid-first round.

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How you plan on adding that pick?

The pick is gone if we make the playoffs

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so we'd be staring at something like a 7th or so pick

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7th pick has jumped each year so far.

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we're probably also not going to be bad enough to get in the top 5

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The 2 worst teams are basically a coin toss's chance of being 5 or worse or 4 or better. There are no "good" odds, in the new lottery, just better odds.

The odds can help you predict the outcome, but the combos that drop are the combos that drop. I look at it as the winners this year are 2, 5, 7 10 (or whatever they end up being). Odds don't help you when something as random as that are the results, you just need to get lucky.

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Developing our current guys is much more valuable.

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I agree, which is why I much rather stop grinding BI/Jonas and let the younger guys play a bit more, like Murphy, like Jax, like Jose.

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Outside of an instant contributing PG

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Part of what keeping the pick can do is sweeten the pot for that sort of move.

For instance take Anfernee Simons or McCollum, Simons currently averaging 25-7-3 as a starter on 44% from three on high volume(40% on the season). He is also a RFA playing behind CJ/Dame/Powell.

Something is gonna have to give with that crowded guard rotation if Lillard and Portland are committed to each other, and something like a S&T for Simons, or a trade for CJ, both involving that pick, probably beats most offers.

The pick doesnt just have to be a 19 year old we wait on

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honestly dont know how Pels that have watched this team for almost ten years, year after year, have key players go down with injuries and many likely fatigue driven injuries

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Under the Demps regime and the Saints training staff, I agree. I will never get over how they ruined Pondexter's career. They lost the benefit of the doubt

Excepting Zion, who is sui generis, with Aaron Nelson in staff, it hasn't been the same.

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argument most of you are implicitly making is that we should allow our staff to risk the health and safety of our players to chase a token play in game or two. 

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Isn't your argument implicitly that you, Bronc on Pels Talk, know more about the health and wellness of players than Aaron Nelson and his team? Isn't one of Zion's big problems with the team the fact that the training staff wouldn't let him play to get a token win or two at the expense of his health and safety?


I can even buy the Valanciunas worry a little. I don't get the Ingram concern. He has averaged right at 34mpg as a Pel. He's at 34.5 this year. He's 24. I trust Nelson and the staff.

This isn't Thibs level mpg or Nash riding 33 year old KD into the ground

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Didn't we have the the fewest games in the league missed due to injury last season?

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Correct, and most around league circles would regard Nelson and his staff as one of the best around.

In fact, the only one that seems to be a problem with them is Zion. Technically, he hasn’t come out and openly said he doesn’t trust the training like Leonard though.

I’m not sure if Zion’s issue is with the actual medical staff or a combination of that and the front office….but in a vacuum, with no one saying anything to the fans….I think most of us would assume he doesn’t enjoy being here.

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Ingram's ankle can linger for a few weeks and Portland/Clippers manage to remain afloat, maybe you're 3-4 out of 10 with 10 games left and you can have that conversation with BI/JV about focusing on next year. But when they're still fighting for All Star spots and the team is so close to the Play In, you're not going to convince any coaches or players that giving up on the season is the thing to do.

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You're also not going to convince willie green, who is building everyday, to tank.

This is the year he is showing the team how to compete day in and day out.

He is the perfect coach for the job.