The Pels starting lineup has 4 below average defenders and...

Outside of the center position I am not worried about our defense. Zion has been much more active, BI has gotten better at off ball defense, and CJ will at least try. The bench guys are fine defensively.

I am more concerned that against a playoff level defense Herb, for all of his offensive improvements, took ZERO shots, ZERO 3 pointers, and was a complete non factor on that end.

It was also concerning that our lineup that has been beating the bad teams into submission, the lineup featuring Z, Jose, Naji, Trey, was absolutely killed. This is probably because they combined to shoot 1/10 from 3 prior to garbage time.

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I am more concerned that against a playoff level defense Herb, for all of his offensive improvements, took ZERO shots, ZERO 3 pointers, and was a complete non factor on that end

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Make no mistake...without serious "movement", which is sometimes hard to "time" with our current offense...Herb can easily be shut down at the 3-pt line. Just gotta "stay at home" if you're guarding him, which is what the Cavs did. There's suppose to be a huge downside to just "staying at home" on outside shooters...especially one like Herb...but that downside didn't make much of an appearance in last night's game.

BTW...he DID attempt a coupla shots (in transition) & was fouled on both of them. FWIW: I think Herb's offense next year...will look much different than this year's does...in a good way.

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---if you graded each one individually on a scale of 1-10, Herb would be a 10...and the other 4 would all be somewhere between a 2 and a 3. I can't see giving a "4" to any of those guys. The fact the Pels apparently have an overall defensive rating in the NBA somewhere around a "7" is amazing and a testament to just how good Herb is.

---Shooting offense comes and goes, game by game...defense doesn't. This is why I continue to say that the development of Dyson Daniels is SO very important. He's gonna make a world of difference next year...assuming he is still around.

---Come playoff time, teams are gonna concentrate more & more on avoiding Herb...and going after some of our "2s", I think, by now, most everybody here knows who those guys are. I just don't see an answer...for this problem...until next year. However...ya never know !!

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I'm just glad you chose to say "defenders" instead of talking about players individual D, never talk about another man's D. Pause.

Precisely why we need more defense in the lineup. I agree Dyson is very important but inserting Trey into the lineup for CJ just makes too much sense. Trey has work to do on the defensive end but it’s literally impossible to be worse than CJ on that end, I’d argue he’s by far our worst defender regardless of his effort. I’d rather let Trey get burned trying to develop into a better defender than continue to run CJ out there to get cooked on every switch by the opponent’s lead guard. Trey/Herb are easily our most important complementary pieces, Trey needs trial by fire before the playoffs

Dray brings us a ring

Defense takes effort. Guys like Herb and Jose are good at defense for a lot of reasons, but their biggest is the energy and effort they put into it. The others do not put much effort and Jonas puts in effort but is simply not quick enough despite being more than strong enough.

Add in a coach that clearly cannot get them to put in the effort while expecting a "defensive" team and you get this mess.

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I agree JV has many faults but at this point it’s clear he’s the lesser of all evils as far as our options at the 5. I’m tired of Nance getting abused cause he’s a better “matchup” on paper.

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Kind of a "pick your poison" situation...but I believe it's obvious Willie has made his choice...I'm just hopin' to see some improvement...down the stretch and come playoff time.

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Herb would be a 10...and the other 4 would all be somewhere between a 2 and a 3

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That's a pretty high variance Dink. Herb, for all his 'First Team All-Defense" work, is not single-handedly carrying the Pels defense. BI and Zion are better on defense individually this year, while CJ and Val are defending at similar levels (below average) to last year.

Pels are just weak, using a baseball analogy, up the middle. They're point and post defense was/is bad and negates all the good perimeter defense. Garland toyed with the Pels, pressuring and breaking the Pels defense down. Once they're out of rotation there is little paint presence to deter shots on rim, put-backs, or securing the board.

Herb even has a tough time with points who create dribble pressure and pass, and CJ really is mismatched (defensive size and quickness). At the post, once the opponent gets Val's feet moving, he's BBQ chicken. His feet (and hands) are too slow to recover. Nance is now slow and undersized. This is why I was dumbfounded at the past off-season and even more at the trade deadline.

The Pels did little in the off-season (aside the draft) just bringing in MIA Cody (does he have more minutes this year than Willie Hernan-Gomez)? Pels did nothing at the deadline, despite knowing the roster construction was shoddy. The timeline on the team had already been deferred due to injury, but its been clear what issues were. Now the Pels are fairly healthy but they'll have to wait IMO another offseason to address the problem keeping them from title contention. Pels need a point and center who match this team's OUTSTANDING combination of shooters, defenders, and finishers who happen to be all Wings.

I have no opinion on Dinky, but how do you “learn to be more intelligent”? Practice?

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You’re mostly correct. But on a personal note, it would be at least a little sad to see JV go. The guy is a gamer.

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I agree i love JV and still think he has a role here. We need to upgrade nance for a bigger rim protector, re-sign JV and have him come off the bench for 15-18 mpg.

I hope we can draft someone like Donovan Clingan from UCONN