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The Pelicans set a goal of shooting 40 3pointers a game. They've done it twice
Posted on 1/2/24 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 1/2/24 at 1:48 pm
Shamit
quote:
Last year the Pelicans had an internal goal of shooting 35 threes per game. They hit that goal 16/83 games played. 7/33 this year.
This year the Pelicans upped that goal to 40 threes per game. They have hit that 2/33 games played.
What is the point of setting ridiculous goals?
6
Posted on 1/2/24 at 1:55 pm to Fun Bunch
Shel broken record alert...
Willie preaches 40 3s per game, then Willie turns around and plays defensive minded lineups and limits minutes of the 2 dudes on the roster willing to let it fly in Trey and Hawkins.
In our rotation:
Zion
Val
Ingram
Dyson
Jose
Naji
5 dudes who really aren't 3pt shooters(yes Jose and Naji have shot it well, no one would confuse them for 3pt shooters though), and 1 dude who probably could be but just refuses to shoot 3s. So while Willie does have his faults, we also don't have a roster/rotation that can ever sniff averaging 40 3s per game.
Willie preaches 40 3s per game, then Willie turns around and plays defensive minded lineups and limits minutes of the 2 dudes on the roster willing to let it fly in Trey and Hawkins.
In our rotation:
Zion
Val
Ingram
Dyson
Jose
Naji
5 dudes who really aren't 3pt shooters(yes Jose and Naji have shot it well, no one would confuse them for 3pt shooters though), and 1 dude who probably could be but just refuses to shoot 3s. So while Willie does have his faults, we also don't have a roster/rotation that can ever sniff averaging 40 3s per game.
This post was edited on 1/2/24 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 1/2/24 at 1:58 pm to shel311
Since we are talking about 3 pointers, I am disappointed in the lack of Zion-Trey lineups. They don't see the floor together enough and when they are on the floor, I don't see a bunch of chances for Trey. Is it the defense dictating this?
Posted on 1/2/24 at 1:59 pm to SaintEB
quote:It's definitely not the defense, it's WIllie's plan.
Since we are talking about 3 pointers, I am disappointed in the lack of Zion-Trey lineups. They don't see the floor together enough and when they are on the floor, I don't see a bunch of chances for Trey. Is it the defense dictating this?
It doesn't matter who we play, Trey is the sub for Zion, and they stagger a shite of their minutes.
And no, it does not make any sense.
Posted on 1/2/24 at 2:04 pm to Fun Bunch
Those are lofty goals when you play so many minutes with non shooters.
I understand that Willie is on the hot seat and is probably afraid to experiment, and the extended Ryan injury hasn’t helped, but we really need to see some Oopty Oop Zion + Shooters lineups and damn the defense. Just see how it works. The goal is to score more than the other team, not hold them to a certain number.
I understand that Willie is on the hot seat and is probably afraid to experiment, and the extended Ryan injury hasn’t helped, but we really need to see some Oopty Oop Zion + Shooters lineups and damn the defense. Just see how it works. The goal is to score more than the other team, not hold them to a certain number.
Posted on 1/2/24 at 2:14 pm to shel311
40 3PAs on team with Zion is almost impossible.
I think the goal should be 37 3PAs. That around what the Bucks shoot every game.
I circled the bucks because offensively Giannis is the closest comparison to Zion.
Their starting lineup and those players 3PAs:
Dame-8.7
Beasley - 6.4
Middleton - 4.3
Giannis - 1.7
Brook - 5.0
Our Starters:
CJ - 7.9
Herb - 3.3
BI - 4.0
Zion - 0.3
JV - 1.9
If you start Trey you look a lot closer like the bucks
CJ - 7.9
Trey - 6.5
BI - 4.0
Zion - 0.3
JV - 1.9
CJ, Trey and BI would give you around the same amount of attempts as Dame, beasley and Middleton. Where you lose out on is Giannis and Brook taking 4.5 more 3s per game than zion and JV.
Problem is that everyone off our bench that Willie like to play (herb, dyson, naji, and jose) do not get up a lot of 3s.
We need to start Trey and and bring another shooter into the rotation that can take 5-6 3s off the bench, whether that's Hawkins or Matt Ryan. That means dyson or naji need to be cut from the rotation
I think the goal should be 37 3PAs. That around what the Bucks shoot every game.
I circled the bucks because offensively Giannis is the closest comparison to Zion.
Their starting lineup and those players 3PAs:
Dame-8.7
Beasley - 6.4
Middleton - 4.3
Giannis - 1.7
Brook - 5.0
Our Starters:
CJ - 7.9
Herb - 3.3
BI - 4.0
Zion - 0.3
JV - 1.9
If you start Trey you look a lot closer like the bucks
CJ - 7.9
Trey - 6.5
BI - 4.0
Zion - 0.3
JV - 1.9
CJ, Trey and BI would give you around the same amount of attempts as Dame, beasley and Middleton. Where you lose out on is Giannis and Brook taking 4.5 more 3s per game than zion and JV.
Problem is that everyone off our bench that Willie like to play (herb, dyson, naji, and jose) do not get up a lot of 3s.
We need to start Trey and and bring another shooter into the rotation that can take 5-6 3s off the bench, whether that's Hawkins or Matt Ryan. That means dyson or naji need to be cut from the rotation
Posted on 1/2/24 at 2:28 pm to shel311
It's definitely a Willie issue. Last season we averages 30.1 threes a game. This season with some added shooting, we're only averaging 30.9 threes a game.
There are 4 teams that average 40 or more threes a game this season. Boston, Dallas, Sacramento, and Golden State. What do they all have in common? They emphasize and scheme to get shot opportunities.
The most realistic goal is 35 a game. Last season was reasonable. But you can't ask for 40 when you're not even getting 35 shots up. This is a scheme issue.
There are 4 teams that average 40 or more threes a game this season. Boston, Dallas, Sacramento, and Golden State. What do they all have in common? They emphasize and scheme to get shot opportunities.
The most realistic goal is 35 a game. Last season was reasonable. But you can't ask for 40 when you're not even getting 35 shots up. This is a scheme issue.
Posted on 1/2/24 at 2:33 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
t's definitely a Willie issue. Last season we averages 30.1 threes a game. This season with some added shooting, we're only averaging 30.9 threes a game.
There are 4 teams that average 40 or more threes a game this season. Boston, Dallas, Sacramento, and Golden State. What do they all have in common? They emphasize and scheme to get shot opportunities.
The most realistic goal is 35 a game. Last season was reasonable. But you can't ask for 40 when you're not even getting 35 shots up. This is a scheme issue.
Absolutely. Trey and CJ should never should less than 8 3s each per game. Every game we dont should be considered a failure.
Posted on 1/2/24 at 2:48 pm to Fun Bunch
40 threes is such a stupid goal. There are only 4 teams that do this in the league.
Boston is taking 43, Dallas 42, Kings 41, and Warriors 40.
Boston's TS% 60.4
Dallas TS% 58.4
Kings TS% 58.7
Warriors TS% 57.8
Pelicans TS% is 58.5 which is 12th in the league.
We shoot a considerable more amount of FT's, 5th in the league, but we are 6th to last in FT%. Make your damn free throws and this offense gets even more effecient. You dont' need to throw up 3 after 3 after 3 just b/c it's worth one more point than a 2. Whatever you do, do it effeciently, and the Pels are pretty effecient, with room to be a lot more effecient.
Our Net Rtg is 8th at 3.3, which is a good bit higher than the Kings/Mavs/Warriors who are all just a hair above 0.
CJ being a 78% FT shooter boggles my mind. There's no reason he shouldn't be 85+
Zion is at 66%, which is pathetic. Giannis has 6 seasons over 72%
BI is at 81%. good, but for him not good considering he was 88% last year.
Jose is somehow at 59%, not many, but that's still really terrible for him.
Make our free throws, turn the ball over less, and it makes this offense a lot better realy quick, and more efficient offense typically tends to better defense since you are more than likely playing defense off of a make, and not a long rebounded 3 where the opposing team gets out in transition.
In the last 10 games, since the Lakers IST arse whipping, our TS% is 61.3, good for 7th best in the league.
Our NetRtg is 12.1, good for 3rd best in the league.
We are only taking 31.3 threes per game in the last 10 games. FT% is only slightly up by 1.5%, and TO's are about the same.
We are shooting 41% from 3 in the last 10 games, 2nd best in the league.
Boston is taking 43, Dallas 42, Kings 41, and Warriors 40.
Boston's TS% 60.4
Dallas TS% 58.4
Kings TS% 58.7
Warriors TS% 57.8
Pelicans TS% is 58.5 which is 12th in the league.
We shoot a considerable more amount of FT's, 5th in the league, but we are 6th to last in FT%. Make your damn free throws and this offense gets even more effecient. You dont' need to throw up 3 after 3 after 3 just b/c it's worth one more point than a 2. Whatever you do, do it effeciently, and the Pels are pretty effecient, with room to be a lot more effecient.
Our Net Rtg is 8th at 3.3, which is a good bit higher than the Kings/Mavs/Warriors who are all just a hair above 0.
CJ being a 78% FT shooter boggles my mind. There's no reason he shouldn't be 85+
Zion is at 66%, which is pathetic. Giannis has 6 seasons over 72%
BI is at 81%. good, but for him not good considering he was 88% last year.
Jose is somehow at 59%, not many, but that's still really terrible for him.
Make our free throws, turn the ball over less, and it makes this offense a lot better realy quick, and more efficient offense typically tends to better defense since you are more than likely playing defense off of a make, and not a long rebounded 3 where the opposing team gets out in transition.
In the last 10 games, since the Lakers IST arse whipping, our TS% is 61.3, good for 7th best in the league.
Our NetRtg is 12.1, good for 3rd best in the league.
We are only taking 31.3 threes per game in the last 10 games. FT% is only slightly up by 1.5%, and TO's are about the same.
We are shooting 41% from 3 in the last 10 games, 2nd best in the league.
This post was edited on 1/2/24 at 3:18 pm
Posted on 1/2/24 at 2:59 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
What is the point of setting ridiculous goals?
Posted on 1/2/24 at 3:57 pm to Fun Bunch
I get that shooting 3’a is part of the new nba math that helps you win in 2023/2024, but I don’t love the focus on it.
It’s probably the least of our issues overall. We can win the way we play. We just need to close games better.
It’s probably the least of our issues overall. We can win the way we play. We just need to close games better.
This post was edited on 1/2/24 at 3:59 pm
Posted on 1/2/24 at 4:00 pm to Splackavellie
It’s common to set lofty goals in business. Sort of like a sales quota. 80% of goal is considered ok. Less than 80% of goal is normally, hey, we need to talk. We appear to be less than 80% of goal, which is cause for concern and changes.
Posted on 1/2/24 at 4:10 pm to supe12sta12z
The only way for a small market team to neutralize biased officiating is to be a good 3pt shooting team.
The goal should be for Zion to collapse the defense and then burn teams with open 3pt shots. We should not be all-in on Zion just taking it to the rim every play. Eventually refs will swallow the whistle and let him get pounded. Then he starts turning it over. Zion turns it over because the refs let defenses collapse and get overly physical within without calling fouls.
If they could get volume and 3pt shooting up then it would be as effective as Zion scoring in the lane. 40% 3pt shooting is equal to 60% in the paint.
The goal should be for Zion to collapse the defense and then burn teams with open 3pt shots. We should not be all-in on Zion just taking it to the rim every play. Eventually refs will swallow the whistle and let him get pounded. Then he starts turning it over. Zion turns it over because the refs let defenses collapse and get overly physical within without calling fouls.
If they could get volume and 3pt shooting up then it would be as effective as Zion scoring in the lane. 40% 3pt shooting is equal to 60% in the paint.
This post was edited on 1/2/24 at 4:14 pm
Posted on 1/2/24 at 4:12 pm to 3PieceSpicy
quote:
. We just need to close games better.
Drives me crazy that we can play a very solid game, have nice flow throughout, have a ton of assist, etc. Play exactly how you want us to play. Then in crunch time we completely revert back to ISO ball with BI.
I'm to the point where I would rather one of our non shooters take a clutch shot over a contested BI ISO or a out of control Zion drive into 3 defenders. Trey would preferably be the guy but I would actually welcome a open corner 3 from Herb or Naji. For once in my life I'd like to see a Pelicans player get an open look in crunch time.
Posted on 1/2/24 at 4:15 pm to iwyLSUiwy
I really think some of it is a function of the way officiating changes in a game. I think later in the game they start letting teams guard us more physically and we fall apart on the offensive end. The scheme needs to change because we will be consistently officiated that way.
Posted on 1/2/24 at 4:42 pm to 3PieceSpicy
quote:
I get that shooting 3’a is part of the new nba math that helps you win in 2023/2024, but I don’t love the focus on it. It’s probably the least of our issues overall. We can win the way we play. We just need to close games better.
Part of the reason we don’t close games well is because we take by far the fewest 3s in clutch time of any team
Posted on 1/2/24 at 4:43 pm to Colonel Flagg
too often late in games we just play lazy and just watch BI or Zion do whatever.
The picks that are set are lazy, and a lot of the time we aren't trying to go do that, it's just 1 guy dribbling and 4 guys watching.
Just be smarter.
Herb is 13/22 from the right corner, and 4/28 from the left corner. MAKE SURE HE'S IN THE RIGHT CORNER.
Trey doesnt' need to stand still. He should have off ball movement, even if it's just to go from the corner to the wing.
Start BI on the left side near the top of the key, have Zion come up and set a pick for him and roll to the goal on the left side, while BI goes to the right. Have Trey start in the right corner, Herb on the right wing, and have Herb go set a pick for Trey and let Herb make the decision if he should slip the screen and cut to the goal. Have CJ just waiting on the left corner/wing if his man helps on Zion rolling to the rim.
They could literally run that play every time down the court, and woudl have successful results more often than not.
Could do the same setup and have Herb go set the pick for BI and then stay on the right wing, where he's shooting 7/18 this year. Zion fills his spot on that right wing and BI does a dribble handoff with Zion and lets him try to get to the goal, all while CJ and Trey are both in the corners.
It's not that complicated. or you could be crazy and put Hawkins in the game instead of Herb. Crazy idea i know. Or hell with the way Jose is shooting, and his confidence, have him in there instead of Herb.
The picks that are set are lazy, and a lot of the time we aren't trying to go do that, it's just 1 guy dribbling and 4 guys watching.
Just be smarter.
Herb is 13/22 from the right corner, and 4/28 from the left corner. MAKE SURE HE'S IN THE RIGHT CORNER.
Trey doesnt' need to stand still. He should have off ball movement, even if it's just to go from the corner to the wing.
Start BI on the left side near the top of the key, have Zion come up and set a pick for him and roll to the goal on the left side, while BI goes to the right. Have Trey start in the right corner, Herb on the right wing, and have Herb go set a pick for Trey and let Herb make the decision if he should slip the screen and cut to the goal. Have CJ just waiting on the left corner/wing if his man helps on Zion rolling to the rim.
They could literally run that play every time down the court, and woudl have successful results more often than not.
Could do the same setup and have Herb go set the pick for BI and then stay on the right wing, where he's shooting 7/18 this year. Zion fills his spot on that right wing and BI does a dribble handoff with Zion and lets him try to get to the goal, all while CJ and Trey are both in the corners.
It's not that complicated. or you could be crazy and put Hawkins in the game instead of Herb. Crazy idea i know. Or hell with the way Jose is shooting, and his confidence, have him in there instead of Herb.
Posted on 1/2/24 at 4:53 pm to MrBarry
Maybe I’m crazy, but I think it’s the off ball stuff that needs to change in crunch time. We wonder why it’s BI iso, and why we don’t take threes, but it’s because BI has the ball and everyone is watching. The stagnation is team wide, and defenses aren’t just going to be on a guy like Trey, but they are going to be two hand holding him. Everyone needs to be moving, everyone needs to be screening, and then the ball needs to be moving.
The even better solution is we find a way to simplify and be effective. For example, spread Z and BI pick and roll. That’s exactly what Memphis does with Ja and Jaron. It’s unlikely a team has two guys both quick enough to stay with Ja and big enough for Jaron. While not the same, most teams don’t have one guy to stay with Z much less two.
Good thing is we are getting a ton of crunch time practice to figure something out.
The even better solution is we find a way to simplify and be effective. For example, spread Z and BI pick and roll. That’s exactly what Memphis does with Ja and Jaron. It’s unlikely a team has two guys both quick enough to stay with Ja and big enough for Jaron. While not the same, most teams don’t have one guy to stay with Z much less two.
Good thing is we are getting a ton of crunch time practice to figure something out.
Posted on 1/2/24 at 5:26 pm to MrBarry
This is the best answer in my opinion. The FT is the only play in basketball completely unopposed. It’s about muscle memory and practice, there’s no excuse for our players to be shooting this poorly from the FT line this season. frick practice, have these dudes shooting 2000 FTs a day. 80% should be a baseline, anything below that is inexcusable.
Posted on 1/2/24 at 8:47 pm to Balsamic_duck
We also have the lowest 3pt % in the clutch, so I’m not positive that taking more of them is the best move to close out games either.
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