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re: Summer League Game Thread: Sons vs Suns 7:00pm CT
Posted on 7/12/23 at 6:55 am to GOP_Tiger
Posted on 7/12/23 at 6:55 am to GOP_Tiger
I believe a lot of players value team culture and fit over draft position. Going to the best situation is the greatest indicator of future success. Someone like Jaquez can blow up going to a great situation in Miami (watch him frt traded to Portland since i said this). It secures his future and that 2nd contract.
I don't believe anyone would outwardly say they don't want to be here. But I'm sure they give better effort/impressions for certain teams and situations they desire.
I didn't expect much from Hawkins so soon. It's just odd to me that lottery picks aren't prepared to contribute and are such big projects. You would think there are 15-20 guys that can come in and play in the NBA right away. I hate the draft and stash philosophy..
I don't believe anyone would outwardly say they don't want to be here. But I'm sure they give better effort/impressions for certain teams and situations they desire.
I didn't expect much from Hawkins so soon. It's just odd to me that lottery picks aren't prepared to contribute and are such big projects. You would think there are 15-20 guys that can come in and play in the NBA right away. I hate the draft and stash philosophy..
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Posted on 7/12/23 at 7:05 am to TigerinATL
quote:
On top of that, a shooter like Hawkins likely takes a few years to become usable
quote:
If Hawkins becomes JJ after 2-3 years t
Makes signing the vet the better move. Losing the majority of his cheap rookie contract makes the pick worth a lot less.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 7:12 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:What's the hit rate on a mid 1st rounder making an immediate impact?
Makes signing the vet the better move. Losing the majority of his cheap rookie contract makes the pick worth a lot less.
I doubt it's good. What you both said is likely true but that's also the case for probably 90% of these dudes with no real, tangible way to consistently identify that 10% who can be year 1 impact players.
This post was edited on 7/12/23 at 7:14 am
Posted on 7/12/23 at 7:12 am to SlowFlowPro
Griff pretty much admitted that they took the pick to fill a need. Why they thought Hawkins would be better than a vet shooter, I have to think they believe in his ceiling.
It also could have been the best use of the pick. We have all guessed at how expensive “upgrading” JV would be. Maybe JV + Kira + Pick wasn’t getting much of a return.
It also could have been the best use of the pick. We have all guessed at how expensive “upgrading” JV would be. Maybe JV + Kira + Pick wasn’t getting much of a return.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 7:17 am to shel311
quote:
What's the hit rate on a mid 1st rounder making an immediate impact? I doubt it's good. What you both said is likely true but that's also the case for probably 90% of these dudes with no real, tangible way to consistently identify that 10% who can be year 1 impact players.
Agree which means we didn’t really fill our shooting need which means we shouldn’t have been drafting to fill a need
Posted on 7/12/23 at 7:23 am to shel311
quote:
See Trey Murphy
Trey was 17th overall, and played the first half of his rookie season out of the rotation and in the G-League.
Everyone giving up on Hawkins already is wild. Give the kid some time.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 7:28 am to Balsamic_duck
quote:
Agree which means we didn’t really fill our shooting need which means we shouldn’t have been drafting to fill a need
It's not like Hawkins was some kind of reach. If he wasn't our BPA (who passed medically), then he was very close.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 7:29 am to Bonkers119
quote:
Trey was 17th overall, and played the first half of his rookie season out of the rotation and in the G-League
He also was arguably the MVP of the Summer League as a rookie.. looked like an across-the-board contributor and then the regular season against actual pros exposed him and he lost minutes
Curious, do you think Hawkins will be the opposite?
Posted on 7/12/23 at 7:35 am to jmcwhrter
Of course we can look back halfway through the season but as of right now, there's not a single dude picked 14 or later we can look at and say, "yep, that dude would instantly be in a 9 man Pels rotation"
Posted on 7/12/23 at 7:36 am to GOP_Tiger
There’s quite a few issues with taking Hawkins to fill a need. It’s not good draft strategy, for one. Always draft BPA. Like Kennard was arguably the best shooter from deep in the league last year, shooting 49% on nearly 5 threes a game, and he was traded for a 2nd round pick. I’ve compared Hawkins to Malik Beasley, and he just signed for the minimum. There are outliers, but there also a lot of examples of strictly shooters not commanding much in the way of money or assets. Third kind of goes back to need, and it’s been said recently in this thread, the chances that Hawkins gets any minutes in the near future are probably pretty unlikely. Couple that with this being a Willie Green led team and that becomes near impossible. You drafted for need for a guy that won’t be able to get on the floor.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 7:38 am to shel311
quote:
Of course we can look back halfway through the season but as of right now, there's not a single dude picked 14 or later we can look at and say, "yep, that dude would instantly be in a 9 man Pels rotation"
I would say that about keyonte george right now but yeah that's about it
Posted on 7/12/23 at 7:51 am to Balsamic_duck
Side note, I loved what we saw from Karlo this game, and he still reminds me of Maxi Kleber. Kleber didn't come to the NBA till he was 26 and it looks like Karlo is going to play at least one more season in europe which will be good for him. I just really like Karlo's athleticism, ability to move on the perimeter, and rim protection. I think he can be Larry's replacement in a couple of years
Posted on 7/12/23 at 8:24 am to Balsamic_duck
Is this where I come to overreact about a summer league game or a player in the game?
Posted on 7/12/23 at 8:28 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I get he has never been on the Hawkins train but hes not wrong on this. We could have easily freed up money by trading down or trading our pick and finding a reliable nba shooter. This league is full of them and as of right now there are times which I agree Hawkins doesn’t even look like he belongs on the same floor as some of these gleague guys. I honestly think Trevon Bluitt had a better summer league than Hawkins. All of that can change but he hasn’t impressed at all in the summer league.
quote:
finding a reliable nba shooter. This league is full of them
Finding a reliable shooter or finding an Eric Gordon? None of the “shooters” you are talking about want to be on our team YET. BI/ Zion will have to prove more before good vets join the rotation willingly.
I agree we should have took best available with Whitmore.
BUT the conversation that we have “all these options and players” that could have been are bullshite. They don’t want to be here. We didn’t just go straight to drafting Hawkins and not talk to any shooters or think about bringing guys in.
No one worth a shite wants to come here YET. And we don’t need to spend money on anyone else until we know Zion/BI can step up and prove to be healthy anyway.
It’s really simple.
This post was edited on 7/12/23 at 9:39 pm
Posted on 7/12/23 at 8:52 am to shel311
quote:
I doubt it's good. What you both said is likely true but that's also the case for probably 90% of these dudes with no real, tangible way to consistently identify that 10% who can be year 1 impact players.
Sure, but that's why you draft for upside and not a maxed-out 21-year old who is severely limited physically. Save those guys for the 2nd round.
This post was edited on 7/12/23 at 8:53 am
Posted on 7/12/23 at 8:54 am to Bonkers119
quote:
Trey was 17th overall, and played the first half of his rookie season out of the rotation and in the G-League.
He was also 6-9 or so with lots of length and athleticism
quote:
Everyone giving up on Hawkins already is wild. Give the kid some time.
What good does it do us if he's a role player by his 3rd year, when we have to give him a huge extension and lose the EV of his rookie deal?
Posted on 7/12/23 at 9:00 am to SlowFlowPro
Yeah, the big advantages in the draft happen when you hit on guys like Herb that give you great production for almost no money. Jose and Naji weren't drafted but are in the same boat.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 9:00 am to SaintEB
Steph Curry shot 32% in Summer League. Not from 3, overall. Along with nearly 4 turnovers a game (18 in 5 games).
Eric Gordon played in 2 SL games his rookie year. Shot 32% overall, 76% FT. He played in 2 his 2nd year and shot 44% overall, 96% FT.
Zach Lavine shot 41% in 6 games in SL his rookie season, 26% from 3.
CJ McCollum went from shooting 36% his first SL to 48% his 2nd season SL (5 games each, nearly same amount of minutes). Turnovers went down from 18 to 12, fouls went down from 19 to 6.
Buddy Hield shot 33%, 23% from 3 his first SL.
Eric Gordon played in 2 SL games his rookie year. Shot 32% overall, 76% FT. He played in 2 his 2nd year and shot 44% overall, 96% FT.
Zach Lavine shot 41% in 6 games in SL his rookie season, 26% from 3.
CJ McCollum went from shooting 36% his first SL to 48% his 2nd season SL (5 games each, nearly same amount of minutes). Turnovers went down from 18 to 12, fouls went down from 19 to 6.
Buddy Hield shot 33%, 23% from 3 his first SL.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 9:04 am to Mickey Goldmill
Part of shooting success comes from automaticity at a given range -- the muscles just do exactly what they are supposed to do.
Rookies come to the NBA without having shot the number of shots from NBA 3-pt range to get that level of muscle memory.
It's why I'm not worried about Hawkins's shot. His defense and ballhandling are more my concern.
Rookies come to the NBA without having shot the number of shots from NBA 3-pt range to get that level of muscle memory.
It's why I'm not worried about Hawkins's shot. His defense and ballhandling are more my concern.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 9:13 am to GOP_Tiger
Defense was always a concern with him, but getting stronger will likely help him with that. Ballhandling has a lot to do with getting used to the speed of the NBA game vs college.
He's also definitely not a "finished product" simply because he's 21 years old. I get that is a little older nowadays for the NBA draft, but he only played 15 minutes a game his freshman season at UConn then blew up this year.
He's also definitely not a "finished product" simply because he's 21 years old. I get that is a little older nowadays for the NBA draft, but he only played 15 minutes a game his freshman season at UConn then blew up this year.
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