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higgsBoson
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Democratic Party
Member since Jan 2012
963 posts

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

Look, ive been a huge JJ fan since Duke. But is the deal breaker really going to be over a dude on the verge of retirement?


I think our best plan for getting Beal would be to ship JJ and Lonzo or picks to a contender for a B+ young asset that they don’t want to pay big money to. Then ship that player + more picks to Washington for Beal.

Not sure how many options there are for that but I only see a path to Beal through a 3rd team. The good news is that JJ has value to a contending team and they might prefer his shooting and leadership to a younger player who is showing promise that washigton might be excited about. And the firsts are enticing as well to use on cheap depth.


TeddyPadillac
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Dec 2010
17721 posts
 Online 

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
The only way we can trade for Beal is if Washington really wants Lonzo and Hayes, or if they don't want those two, that someone else actually wants them and will give up something decent for them.
Like say trading Lonzo to the Bulls for Lauri, b/c Washington wants Lauri over Ball. I can't see them sending Beal out for a bunch of picks and no players. They are going to want at least 2 decent young players, or 1 good young player. PG netted all those picks and SGA. We don't have an SGA. Jrue netted all the picks and 2 decent players, not young. Washington isn't interested in Redick, or Bledsoe.


heauxfeauxsheaux
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2020
101 posts

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
Yeah we have the draft capital but no actual player asset for a guy like beal. NOBODY wants Ball. People seem to attach a lot to his name and his draft position but the verdict is out on him. Plain and simple


SCLSUMuddogs
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2010
5585 posts
 Online 

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

Look, ive been a huge JJ fan since Duke. But is the deal breaker really going to be over a dude on the verge of retirement?


I was responding to someone saying "The pelicans would never do JJ dirty like that"


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SCLSUMuddogs
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2010
5585 posts
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re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

Beal is a borderline top 25 player.
Holiday is a borderline top 40 player.

I'd say in hard and overall advanced stats.

As a defender, holiday is better, but offensively Beal is elite compared.


Beal is top 15 player, also holiday is at least top 30. Idk who you're putting ahead of these guys


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
378307 posts

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

I think our best plan for getting Beal would be to ship JJ and Lonzo or picks to a contender for a B+ young asset that they don’t want to pay big money to. Then ship that player + more picks to Washington for Beal.

that would probably have to go through NJ


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htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
26287 posts
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re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
Precisely. The issue right now is we want to be involved, but our side of picks we don't have value in players.

If Hayes or naw showed any potential, a team can convince themselves into wanting that player.

As it stands, none of the picks will be top 5. They won't want it.


Fun Bunch
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
77526 posts

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
Yeah we cannot win this sweepstakes.

We just don't have players a team would want.


TeddyPadillac
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Dec 2010
17721 posts
 Online 

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
That's why we should go after Oladipo. He'd be easier to get i think, and the faster you do it, the more time you have with him to convince him to stay.
I can't imagine Indiana thinks he stays there, or that they even want him to. I'm sure they tried trading him this offseason and were unsuccessful in getting what they wanted. Maybe they have lowered their asking price now.


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NOFOX
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
9108 posts
 Online 

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

Yeah we cannot win this sweepstakes.

We just don't have players a team would want.



Correct, outside of the two untouchables, we don't have any players that can move the needle for an organization. The Wiz would need to get back a potential future all star like a Herro, MPJ, or Wiseman. We don't even have a 3&D wing like anunonby to supplement picks. With how young Washington is already, I cannot see them going the OKC route and prioritizing volume of picks over everything else.


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nicj4
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
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Member since Jan 2020
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re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

but our side of picks we don't have value in players


It would be possible to increase Lonzo, Bledsoe, JJ and NAW values this season.

Unfortunately, Pels are 4-5 instead of 7-2 (3 defeats were really stupid).

It gives bad signals to GMs.


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ThanosIsADemocrat
The Garden
Member since May 2018
4039 posts

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

Straight up, the only way I trade for Beal is if we trade Ingram for him. That would be a good swap for both teams. Otherwise, we have 4-5 players (that should be playing minutes in the league), of which 3 need to have the ball. Its a recipe for a disaster.. That isn't a good team..




When your opening sentence works against you....
quote:

Just keep flinging crap against the wall and hope something sticks


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htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
26287 posts
 Online 

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

Beal is top 15 player, also holiday is at least top 30. Idk who you're putting ahead of these guys



For Beal, I can personally agree on the top 15 right this moment. Some people project to be this year (like Tatum or Brown leaping him) or consider things like elite defensive player (Gobert) would mean more.

Beal is an ELITE offensive player, but defensively he's is a net negative.


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Epic Cajun
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
23058 posts
 Online 

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

NOBODY wants Ball.


This is BS, there were articles this offseason about Lonzo being a top 10 free agent this offseason and valued at ~20 mil.

I don't value him at that, but I also don't think the articles were just making stuff up, there are teams that value him.


Fun Bunch
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
77526 posts

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

This is BS, there were articles this offseason about Lonzo being a top 10 free agent this offseason and valued at ~20 mil.



Hollinger has been notoriously very wrong in his offseason contract evaluations. He usually goes WAY high.

Also, Lonzo has now played this year, and he stinks. So there's that.


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TeddyPadillac
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Dec 2010
17721 posts
 Online 

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

This is BS, there were articles this offseason about Lonzo being a top 10 free agent this offseason and valued at ~20 mil.



Yeah, from people that don't actually watch him play and just know he's a Ball and they watch ESPN highlights and see him make a nice pass every now and then, not GM's that actually watch him play.



I'll post this yet again on my thoughts on his value.

quote:

Is Lonzo in the same category as Brogdon and VanVleet?
Both are really good defenders, shoot the ball well, and are actual point guards.

They are better than Lonzo at almost every facet of the game. The only thing Lonzo is better than them at is rebounding and transition assists.

I can't see how someone thinks he's worth 4/$85 like they got.

Guys that just got $16-20M/yr salaries:
Van Vleet
Bertans
Gallo
Grant
Harris
Bogdanvich
Morris
Lonzo isn't deserving of this unless he becomes a really good defender. His offensive game will never get good enough to demand that money like Bertans/Gallo/Harris/Bogdanovich have. He's not the same kind of shooter/scorer they are, and he won't become one, it's simply not his skill set. He can be a Jerami Grant type player that can knock down open 3's, rebound, and defend at a high level though.

Malik Beasley, KCP, Clarkson got that $13-15M/yr range. This is more where he fits right now. Next level is full MLE money, which is probably what his true worth is, but b/c he's young and still has time to get better, the $13-$15M/yr range is probably more what he will get, especially since so many teams will have cap space instead of using the MLE, and that's assuming at worst he plays like he did when he was good last year. he plays like he did in the bubble for half the season and he'll be lucky to get the full MLE.


Lonzo is most like Beasley's recent scenario, in his last year of his rookie deal. Beasley got some run the last 2 years in Denver, but only average 11ppg and shot well from 3. It looks like Denver didn't really care to invest more in him b/c he was never going to be a starter for them, and they pay Will Barton to be their 6th man, so they traded him for a 1st round pick from Houston. Beasley went to Minny, averaged 20ppg in 14 games, and now he got a nice 4/$60 deal.

Lonzo needs to make a jump to get paid, whether a big jump defensively, or a big jump offensively. If he doesn't, he's likely getting traded mid-season and he'll have one more short chance to prove he's worth more than the MLE


Tell me where i'm wrong in my thinking of his value. NBA GM's live in the real world, not in the social media/ESPN darling world that the Ball family has created for themselves.


higgsBoson
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Democratic Party
Member since Jan 2012
963 posts

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

Tell me where i'm wrong in my thinking of his value. NBA GM's live in the real world, not in the social media/ESPN darling world that the Ball family has created for themselves.


There’s a lot of fans that live in that world. I agree that Lonzo is not a good asset and is a bad player. But I think we can get slightly more for him than a normal player of his caliber due to his fame. GMs live in the real world where marketability is actually a quality that has real value.

Edit: A rebuilding team might like the idea of having Ball while the team is bad to get butts in the seats.
This post was edited on 1/12 at 2:25 pm


heauxfeauxsheaux
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2020
101 posts

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

This is BS, there were articles this offseason about Lonzo being a top 10 free agent this offseason and valued at ~20 mil.


Yeah there is no way he is getting close to that unless he completely pulls a 180. I am talking right now, as of today. Maybe people could see that coming into the season with the progression he made last year with his shot, but as of right now if he continues this play, which he most likely will because he is who he is, He ain't touching 20+mil a year


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heauxfeauxsheaux
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2020
101 posts

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

But I think we can get slightly more for him than a normal player of his caliber due to his fame.


Maybe I am crazy but he doesn't seem that famous to me. I very rarely hear is name mentioned, most likely because he sucks, but also maybe because he plays for the pelicans. 2 years ago sure, but now I don't see it


TeddyPadillac
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Dec 2010
17721 posts
 Online 

re: Ringer Article on Bradley Beal Sweepstakes (Pelicans Mentioned)
quote:

Maybe I am crazy but he doesn't seem that famous to me. I very rarely hear is name mentioned, most likely because he sucks, but also maybe because he plays for the pelicans. 2 years ago sure, but now I don't see it



the Hornets and Pelicans played on national tv b/c of the Ball brothers, not b/c of BI or Zion.


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