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Started By
Message
re: Pels interested in Mathurin per Stein
Posted on 7/29/26 at 10:30 am to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 7/29/26 at 10:30 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
And what is that value?
3 2nds?
I don’t give a shite about any 2nd round pick. I’d rather Herb.
Not a single person in the world would want (3) 2nds > Herb.
Didn't think anyone in the world believes Herb's value is (3) 2nds.
His value is between (1) mid/ Early 1st to (2) mid rd 1sts.
1
Posted on 7/29/26 at 10:43 am to NOSHAU
quote:
Expiring contracts can be traded for equal or close value that may be better than a player like Mathurin
Yes.
quote:
However, Poole and Hawk are expiring. Is Mathurin better than whatever we could spend that $41 million on in the future seasons?
You specifically insuated a comparison between trading for Mathurin now vs using for $41mil in future seasons
quote:
Hard to understand?
What you said? No.
What you wanted to say? Yes.
"Is Mathurin better than whatever else we could spend with $41mil NOW"
"Is Mathurin better than whatever else we could spend IN FUTURE SEASONS"
The answer is not linear. If we trade Herb then Mathurin @ $20mil still leaves us with $40mil assuming Poole/ Hawk trades.
Would I rather have:
M Turner + Mathurin + $15mil TPE
Or
Herb
For me that's an easy answer.
This post was edited on 7/29/26 at 10:50 am
Posted on 7/29/26 at 11:26 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Not a single person in the world would want (3) 2nds > Herb.
Didn't think anyone in the world believes Herb's value is (3) 2nds.
Then why did Lou Dort, who's better than Herb, just go for 3 2nd's?
One of them will be good, Bulls '27 2nd, but the other 2 are way in the future from the Hawks, so little to no value at the moment.
Dort shoots more 3's than Herb, and has hit them at 38% over the last 3 years.
Herb has shot below 31% from 3 the last 2 years. But his value is at it's peak right?
and yes i know part of the value OKC got back was shedding salary, so i do think Dort's value is better than 3 2nd's.
quote:
His value is between (1) mid/ Early 1st to (2) mid rd 1sts.
That is your opinion of his value. The league just told you that your opinion is way off. Although i would agree that i do think we could get a non-lottery 1st for him, and still, i'm not interested in getting a non-lottery 1st for Herb right now. No one is giving up 2 1sts of any kind for Herb right now.
Posted on 7/29/26 at 12:15 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Then why did Lou Dort, who's better than Herb, just go for 3 2nd's?
Because they saved $80-$100million from the tax.
Everything you said after that is moot.
quote:
The league just told you that your opinion is way off.
The league told me that teams in the tax give away assets at a discount to save money on their bottom line. Whowouldathunkit.
Before you ask "Why didn't another team give them a 1st for him"
Its because other teams couldn't take certain salary without giving OKC salary back, which doesnt help them save $80-$100 million.
That's not a small chunk of money, certainly worth atleast a 1st or lack thereof.
You don't think (3) 2nds + $80mil in your pocket is close or equal value to a 1st at a minimum?
This post was edited on 7/29/26 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 7/29/26 at 1:36 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
Because they saved $80-$100million from the tax.
Atlanta did not care about that one bit.
you throwing out these huge numbers as if they made a difference to ATL, or Dallas, is silly. That's not the number either of them cared about.
quote:
The league told me that teams in the tax give away assets at a discount to save money on their bottom line. Whowouldathunkit.
I didn't say this didn't happen. Of course absorbing salary has a cost, but that cost drastically changes when the player being absorbed is actually good and wanted by the other team.
quote:
Before you ask "Why didn't another team give them a 1st for them"
Its because other teams couldn't take certain salary without giving OKC salary back, which doesnt help them save $80-$100 million.
again, no one cared about saving OKC $80-100M.
What they did care about was acquiring a defensive stalworth who is a good 3 point set shooter, with the caveat that they would have to not send OKC any salary back. ATL didn't absorb the $17M from Dort. They sent that to Dallas to absorb by sending out Risacher to them, and it wasn't even $17M Dallas had to absorb, it was $11M. Dallas wasn't the only team that could absorb salary. ATL (and other teams that may have wanted Dort) had other options to dump salary to make the Dort trade happen.
quote:
That's not a small chunk of money, certainly worth atleast a 1st or lack thereof.
Again, no one cares about OKC saving $80M. It was the $17M number that mattered, and even then, that number wasn't the big number.
Dallas had the ability to absorb salary to get a player they wanted, and all they had to do to get Risacher was give up a good 2nd round pick. ATL didn't dump some worthless salary. they traded away an asset that was only worth a 2nd round pick.
Dallas wanted Risacher.
ATL wanted Dort.
This salary dump ATL did in order to get Dort did not cost them anything b/c Dallas actually wanted Risacher.
No one is doing anyone favors or trading for a player they didn't want, which is what would happen if we were to dump Hawkins salary.
Do you see the huge difference between us having to send assets out to dump $7M in Hawkins, and Dallas giving up a decent asset to absorb $11M of Risacher?
Dort's value was 3 2nd's. At most, the fact that a team had to absorb his salary might have cost a rather worthless 2nd, at most.
Posted on 7/29/26 at 1:46 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Atlanta did not care about that one bit.
you throwing out these huge numbers as if they made a difference to ATL, or Dallas, is silly. That's not the number either of them cared about.
It has a direct correlation. The numbers matter because ATL isn't giving OKC a 1st knowing they have all the leverage and otherwise OKC eats $80mil.
quote:
again, no one cared about saving OKC $80-100M
I have absolutely no clue what you are trying to say.
quote:
No one is doing anyone favors or trading for a player they didn't want,
No one said anything about this comment.
You really can't understand that ATL was never going to give OKC a 1st AND help them save $80mil?
Does OKC want Lu Dort or $80mil cap relief? Does OKC want $80mil cap relief or a 1st for Lu Dort?
Idk wtf you are saying or how Hawkins $7mil has anything to do with us discussing Dort vs Herb.
OKC could have got a 1st for Dort. But they wouldn't have $80 mil in their pocket. Lu Dort is worth a 1st which is also worth equal or less than (3) 2nds + $80mil in the eyes of OKC.
None of that adds up to Lu Dort = the value of (3) 2nds.
If the Pels were $50mil in the tax then yeah Herb is worth 2-3 2nds to get that $50mil back. Why is this complicated?
quote:
Dort's value was 3 2nd's.
No, Dorts value was (3) 2nds + $80million dollars directly back to the OKC Owner. That's exactly why a 1st wasn't included.
"Throwing huge numbers around like they make a difference". Because apparently $80million dollars makes no difference.
Something in the water today.
This post was edited on 7/29/26 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 7/29/26 at 2:10 pm to Dantheman504
whatever man.
quote:
Idk wtf you are saying or how Hawkins $7mil has anything to do with us discussing Dort vs Herb.
Yeah. I'm aware you don't know what the frick is going on here.
quote:
Lu Dort is worth a 1st which is also worth equal or less than (3) 2nds
I agree with this, the first being a lottery protected 1st.
Posted on 7/29/26 at 2:20 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Idk wtf you are saying or how Hawkins $7mil has anything to do with us discussing Dort vs Herb.
Yeah. I'm aware you don't know what the frick is going on here.
What does Hawks $7 mil have anything to do with Herb, Dort, or a team trading a player to avoid the tax? Absolutely nothing.
quote:
Lu Dort is worth a 1st which is also worth equal or less than (3) 2nds
I agree with this, the first being a lottery protected 1st
So a lottery protected 1st = (3) 2nds but Lu Dort/ Herb are not worth a 1st?
If that's true then do you know why they gave them 3 2nds instead of a lottery protected 1st? Because the Hawks had all the leverage and the trade was really about saving $80 million dollars. Which is why they were offered 2nds instead of a 1st.
Do you know why OKC took the deal? Because they probably didn't have another offer that saved them $80 million dollars.
We aren't $80mil in the tax so by default Herb is not worth (3) 2nds, he is worth atleast (1) 1st. We don't make that deal because we aren't trying to save $80 million dollars.
This post was edited on 7/29/26 at 2:23 pm
Posted on 7/29/26 at 2:56 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
What does Hawks $7 mil have anything to do with Herb, Dort, or a team trading a player to avoid the tax? Absolutely nothing.
I explained that to you.
You don't want to acknowledge it.
Trading Hawkins to dump salary would cost the Pelicans assets.
Trading Risacher while Dallas absorbs his salary didn't cost ATL assets b/c Dallas actually wanted him. No one wants Hawkins.
This isn't that difficult to see.
quote:
So a lottery protected 1st = (3) 2nds but Lu Dort/ Herb are not worth a 1st?
I have literally said twice now that i think they are both worth a lottery protected 1st.
Have you watched the draft before? Do you know what it takes to move up to say the 22nd pick in the draft?
The Nuggets acquired the 22nd pick using #28, #56 (worthless), and 2 future 2nds.
OKC acquired the 26th pick using 5 2nd round picks. Those 5 2nd round picks were all from perennial playoff teams. 3 of those picks have been made. #50 last year and #41 and #51 this year. They get the Twolves 2nd and 2nd best of Heat/Pacers/Rockets this year. Picks in the 50's are worthless when it comes to actually making the pick. The odds you draft a guy that even makes the team is extremely low.
So yeah maybe a late 1st is worth more than 3 2nds but not by much.
quote:
Do you know why OKC took the deal? Because they probably didn't have another offer that saved them $80 million dollars.
B/c no one offered them anything better. duh.
Also, OKC does not want another 1st round pick for next year. If they wanted a 1st, it would have been a future 1st, and future 1sts are a bit more valuable than one for this upcoming year, especially when you have a much clearer idea of the expectations of the team you'd be getting the 1st from.
You want to address the fact that Dort and Herb are both likely viewed as equally good defenders, and that Dort has shot 38% from 3 the last 3 years on a higher volume than Herb, while Herb has shot under 31% the last 2 years? They don't have the same value.
Posted on 7/29/26 at 3:16 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
And yet y'all think possibly trading Herb at his highest value is a bad thing
And what is that value?
3 2nds?
I don’t give a shite about any 2nd round pick. I’d rather Herb. And if you needed to use those 2nds later, then you just use Herb.
quote:
Didn't think anyone in the world believes Herb's value is (3) 2nds.
His value is between (1) mid/ Early 1st to (2) mid rd 1sts.
quote:
Then why did Lou Dort, who's better than Herb, just go for 3 2nd's?
quote:
That is your opinion of his value. The league just told you that your opinion is way off.
quote:
I have literally said twice now that i think they are both worth a lottery protected 1st.
This entire argument is based off you saying Herb is not worth a 1st and only worth 2nds and then you rambled about Hawk for a page.
What the absolute frick are you talking about. Seriously there's something in the water today. I'll assume you are gaslighting me because you are smarter than whatever the hell this is.
This post was edited on 7/29/26 at 3:19 pm
Posted on 7/29/26 at 3:18 pm to Dantheman504
I'm sorry you don't understand how the nba works.
Posted on 7/29/26 at 4:15 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I'm sorry you don't understand how the nba works.
I'm sorry you've stooped down to gaslighting when you have no argument.
This post was edited on 7/29/26 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 7/29/26 at 4:20 pm to KhalMingo
quote:
he’s done some positive things on the administrative and coaching hire side.
He hired a twice failed HC….
Posted on 7/29/26 at 4:36 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
I'm sorry you've stooped down to gaslighting when you have no argument.
still have no idea what gaslighting means, nor do i care.
It's pointless to argue with you, yet i continue to do it. Can't help myself.
Posted on 7/29/26 at 7:16 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
You do realize you are pretty much the only Pelicans fan on the planet that is ok with this trade?
He is not the only one.
I was happy of the trade back then and even hapier now, because I love Jose and instead of sending him somewhere else for couple of 2nd round picks in the 40-50 range, we did what was right. We are not the first team who made a trade honoring a player, instead of what's best for the team. And we would have never gotten a 1st when his contract was expiring.
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