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Jester
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
27643 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:

Finally, an opinion of “fire the coach” is an easy “opinion” to have that provides no serious grounds for discussion. It lays all the burden on someone else to solve the actual problems: what is to be done after he is fired? Who do we replace him with? What impact does that have on the current roster? How does this effect the actual humans on the court? Does that knock us out of the playoffs? Does that matter? Is that just attacking the symptom of the disease and not the disease itself? What if the next coach sucks? Do we just rinse and repeat?

Saying “fire the coach, and that will fix everything” over and over is just lazy.


Hence my previous post. The disease has always been Dell and his inability to build a balanced roster. I'd honestly take Monty Williams over Gentry, but it doesn't matter as long as Demps is fricking up the roster.


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Jester
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
27643 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:

Maybe try to acquire multiple young players and a veteran who can maybe make the franchise better. Trading Anthony is gonna require getting a haul in return. Players & picks.

I just know , from what I've seen, that having 2 seven footers who rather play out on the perimeter is not working.




You absolutely do not allow Derps to trade away Davis. If a competent GM comes in and determines it's the best course of action, let him do it, but you can't let Derps make any more franchise-crippling splashes.


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NOSHAU
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Feb 2012
4222 posts
 Online 

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:

I just know , from what I've seen, that having 2 seven footers who rather play out on the perimeter is not working.
That I do not disagree with. It puts a lot of pressure on the front office to decide what to do with Boogie. I doubt he has much value in a trade situation, but they may need to explore that option. It appears his attitude towards defense is rubbing off on others on the team, including Davis.


TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
48626 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
The problem with trading Cousins is best case scenario is probably

Cousins/Ajinca/Asik/Diallo

for

Porter/Gortat

While that might be a move with high fit value, it doesn't have much star power so you have to wonder how AD would feel about it.


NOFOX
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
6248 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
Yeah, we can't trade Cousins at this point. The only chance of trading Cousins was if we just tanked and were out of the playoffs. Maybe if we go on like a 10 game losing streak or something crazy, then it could be contemplated. If we are in striking distance of the playoffs, we are keeping Cousins and hoping he re-signs with us.

We put our chips in with the Cousins trade and we are going to ride it out for better or worse.


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DeionDeion
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2010
4692 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:

ShamelessPel


cant believe im saying it but I completely agree with you. I post most of the time on this board alone but lately, ive been posting less and less. Sure I get frustrated when the Pels lose or when Gentry does something dumb, but mostly I see is constant bitching here. I'm not saying other posters cant be pissed off, but I'm also saying this isn't a counseling office.

Pels talk has been about as good as the rant and there are only a handful of posters that actually contribute good discussion.


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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
8802 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:

So what do you hope to accomplish by trading away a young elite player? What are the chances you actually improve on that? Makes absolutely no sense.


if Boogie doesnt stay they should absolutely look to trade Davis. at that point, they're going nowhere with Davis anyway.

the larger issue is this ownership group, as Kushner pointed out, just doesn't seem to know what they are doing or, less charitably, just doesnt give a shite about their pro hoops team


Gtothemoney
UNO Fan
Da North Shore
Member since Sep 2012
15895 posts
 Online 

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
I've seen enough of Boogie/AD to not like what I see. I'd rather pair one of them with a Kanter/Gortat/Drummond type big who plays the traditional big role.


corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
8802 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
100%- they are both modern 5s who want to be 4s. and they both want to be "the guy"

it works well enough when they are on the court together. but not so well that i ever feel like it is a real revelation. and when Cousins is by himself it is a disaster


NOFOX
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
6248 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:

the larger issue is this ownership group, as Kushner pointed out, just doesn't seem to know what they are doing or, less charitably, just doesnt give a shite about their pro hoops team


The whole ownership doesn't care about the Pelicans is lazy . Are we really to believe that Benson's management team does not give a shite about his second largest investment?

Dell/Gentry were rightfully spared by the Boogie trade and that has to play out now. It is a star driven league and we acquired a second one. If Boogie leaves, then Dell and Gentry are gone.

If Boogie is gone, I would imagine they will swing for the fences and try to convince Mike Zarren to leave the Celtics.


NOFOX
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
6248 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:

I'd rather pair one of them with a Kanter/Gortat/Drummond type big who plays the traditional big role.


A traditional big really restricts what you can do offensively. If Boogie leaves, I would like to see AD paired with someone like Kelly Olynyk.

Olynyk hustles on defense, can rebound, and sets screens like a traditional center, but he spaces the floor and can even handle the ball a little. I think he would be a great complement to AD.


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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
8802 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:

whole ownership doesn't care about the Pelicans is lazy . Are we really to believe that Benson's management team does not give a shite about his second largest investment?


Pels are clearly red headed step child. They have created that perception, not because they arent winning or I'm mad or whatever, but by their actions and words. Scott Kushner wrote a piece that pretty much said ownership has no clue/interest

Why don't you look up Mickey Loomis in the Pels media guide and tell me how many times the word "basketball" appears in the bio of the President of Basketball Operations

While you are there, you could also look up how many senior execs on the business side now do dual roles with the Saints.

Can you explain why the team goes silent every spring during Saints draft and, last year, the Kentucky Derby?

quote:

Dell/Gentry were rightfully spared by the Boogie trade and that has to play out now


That you think my comment is about firing Gentry/Demps is comical. Those guys are symptoms of the disease, not the cause. They work hard. They aren't particularly good at their jobs,but they're in a shitty situation

quote:

try to convince Mike Zarren to leave the Celtics.





A guy like Zarren, a sharp, top exec in a top flight organization, isn't jumping ship to New Orleans with what we've seen from this ownership.
This post was edited on 1/3 at 5:34 pm


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Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
3134 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
They care. A bit.

But they don't see the point in throwing everything into it to build a winner at any cost, because they will make money hand over fist regardless because of the TV deal. If they sold the franchise today, they could get at least double what they paid and that is unheard of in almost any business.

They treat the Saints the way you would treat your kids and treat the Pelicans the way you would treat your neighbors kids. They care, but they aren't going to bend over backwards when maximum effort doesn't get you much more than minimum effort would finacially


DeionDeion
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2010
4692 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:

if Boogie doesnt stay they should absolutely look to trade Davis. at that point, they're going nowhere with Davis anyway.


I disagree. I think Boogie is actually an overall net negative. I love his ability to score, his passion, and I think he's been a solid leader. But the TO's, the high volume of shots, and inability to adjust his game (maybe blame should be put on Gentry for trying to run as much with him) are his downfall. And if we can get rid of him (even if it's only for a pick and an average player) I think we turn out to be a better team. A much better team.

Idk the advanced stats but via the sophisticated eye test, the offense looks much more fluid and efficient when Boogie sits.


quote:

The whole ownership doesn't care about the Pelicans is lazy . Are we really to believe that Benson's management team does not give a shite about his second largest investment?


It's not that I think the whole ownership doesn't care about the Pelicans (even though I doubt Benson/Loomis go to many games), I just think Loomis is under-qualified and the Demps plan has been a major bust. His crowning achievement was Jrue which he ruined by overpaying (I know we was hog-tied) and getting Boogie. Start all the fire Gentry threads you want, but the issues we've had with the Pels begin at the top.
This post was edited on 1/3 at 7:46 pm


NOFOX
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
6248 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:

They care. A bit. But they don't see the point in throwing everything into it to build a winner at any cost,


How many organizations throw everything into building a winner at any cost? A handful? How many of those are in small markets?

quote:

If they sold the franchise today, they could get at least double what they paid and that is unheard of in almost any business.


If they wait until 2024 and sell, they could get $2B+, but they aren't going to do that.

quote:

They treat the Saints the way you would treat your kids and treat the Pelicans the way you would treat your neighbors kids. They care, but they aren't going to bend over backwards when maximum effort doesn't get you much more than minimum effort would finacially


Ownership has more focus on the Saints because they have been running the Saints for 30+ years. However, on the Pels side ownership doesn't meddle and is willing to spend up to the tax. That is not the terrible situation for a GM or franchise that some make it out to be. Not every team can spend like the Warriors.



ShamelessPel
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Metairie
Member since Apr 2013
9038 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:

Ownership has more focus on the Saints because they have been running the Saints for 30+ years. However, on the Pels side ownership doesn't meddle and is willing to spend up to the tax. That is not the terrible situation for a GM or franchise that some make it out to be. Not every team can spend like the Warriors.


One step further, being willing to just eat dead money on top of bumping up against the tax line. I wouldn't call Benson cheap when it comes to the Pels, especially relative to how much revenue the team brings in outside of the revenue sharing.

I think Crewz' example would be more adequate describing the Pels as your nieces/nephews instead of your neighbors, though I understand completely what he's trying to say.


TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
48626 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:

One step further, being willing to just eat dead money on top of bumping up against the tax line.


Mickey Loomis is the dead money king. MM told us the day Asik was signed that they designed the contract to stretch after the 3rd year, a very NFL thing which I thought was dumb as hell at the time and looks even dumber in hindsight. If you think his useful span is 3 years then offer him 3/$36. Asik would not have turned down 3/$36, and if he did then it's because someone else offered him even more than that, he walks and you look like a genius instead of a fool that outsmarted himself with a clever contract structure.


NOFOX
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
6248 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
quote:


Mickey Loomis is the dead money king. MM told us the day Asik was signed that they designed the contract to stretch after the 3rd year, a very NFL thing which I thought was dumb as hell at the time and looks even dumber in hindsight. If you think his useful span is 3 years then offer him 3/$36. Asik would not have turned down 3/$36, and if he did then it's because someone else offered him even more than that, he walks and you look like a genius instead of a fool that outsmarted himself with a clever contract structure.


Loomis was not the one deciding whether to sign Asik to a certain number or let him walk. That was Dell's job. Loomis was the one trying to structure a contract that would give the team the most flexibility if necessary.

I think Asik would have rejected 3/$36M. I think he would have wanted 3/$39M due to his bargaining position. Adding $5M gives them an option to retain for 2 more years, stretch him, and adds ~$9M in capspace over the first 3 years.


The problem with the Asik negotiations was not the contract structure, but the fact that Dell backed himself into a corner by having Asik as the ONLY option. Asik's agent had ALL of the negotiating power because he knew the Pels sunk costs and lack of any alternative meant they would have to pay well above market rate. Dell could not walk away from Asik and it showed.
This post was edited on 1/4 at 11:13 am


Fun Bunch
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
56785 posts
 Online 

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
There was a game on last night and I realized just how little I cared. I'm completely apathetic about this team right now.


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TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
48626 posts

re: Our once great Pelicans Talk is becoming unreadable
I wasn't blaming Loomis for the contract as much as the approval. Maybe he was trying to make the best of a bad situation like you're saying, but they have to stop the cycle of being stuck with overpaid starters that are only on the team because of sunk cost at some point. The rumors suggested plan A or B this offseasn was to do the same damn thing again with Jeremy Lin.


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