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Posted on 6/26/23 at 1:07 pm to cgrand
I can not believe someone took on Collins’ deal. That’s crazy
Posted on 6/26/23 at 1:11 pm to cgrand
Usually a first round pick is tied to a salary dump. We're seemingly seeing the effect of the new CBA. Both the Washington and Atlanta salary dumps didn't cost or net them a FRP.
This post was edited on 6/26/23 at 1:13 pm
Posted on 6/26/23 at 1:13 pm to PELsu
mcnamara is crying on twitter that we weren't the ones to take it
Posted on 6/26/23 at 1:15 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:Which is why I still don't get why folks think we'll HAVE to add assets to move CJ.
Usually a first round pick is tied to a salary dump. We're seemingly seeing the effect of the new CBA. Both the Washington and Atlanta salary dumps didn't cost or net them a FRP.
Collins is due $26.6 mil in '25-26. CJ is due $30.6mil in that same year so not a huge difference, and CJ is rather obviously a better player than Collins.
Posted on 6/26/23 at 1:25 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
They either absolutely love Collins in their 5 out offense or they really believe they can rehabilitate his value.
Collins hasn’t been used to his abilities for several years now.
They likely rehab his value a bit then get some pieces for him.
They have been doing that a lot with their roster of misfit toys they ended up with.
Posted on 6/26/23 at 1:41 pm to teke184
quote:Gotta be this, and it's such a great strategy, but not just any team can do that.
They likely rehab his value a bit then get some pieces for him.
Utah is in a great position to do that, with cap space and no expectations to win currently, so they can feature him a good bit more and get his production at least closer to the 2 and 10 Collins days instead of the most recent 13 & 7.
This post was edited on 6/26/23 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 6/26/23 at 2:03 pm to shel311
quote:
Which is why I still don't get why folks think we'll HAVE to add assets to move CJ.
Collins is due $26.6 mil in '25-26. CJ is due $30.6mil in that same year so not a huge difference, and CJ is rather obviously a better player than Collins.
You're leaving out age which is a huge factor. collins is 26 so there's a better possibility that he can turn it around, while CJ is a 32 yo undersized guard who is most likely on the decline the next 3 years
Posted on 6/26/23 at 11:46 pm to Balsamic_duck
1. Collins is 25 and CJ is 31 2. I don’t know how many times I have to say this or how many players have to still be great players past 30 for some of you to get it but it’s not the 80s anymore where players play 10-12 years or the 90s where they played 12-15. Players today have exponentially more skill than even the late 2000s and better trainers. The stars of today can play 15-18 and sometimes even more. 3. CJ in the last year of his extension will count for less of the cap than Collins now. Plus CJs leadership and intangibles is worth 5 mil a year easily. Especially for how he changed our culture and mindset. That’s why we will never trade him
This post was edited on 6/26/23 at 11:47 pm
Posted on 6/27/23 at 8:02 am to PrayingMantis
quote:
1. Collins is 25 and CJ is 31 2. I don’t know how many times I have to say this or how many players have to still be great players past 30 for some of you to get it but it’s not the 80s anymore where players play 10-12 years or the 90s where they played 12-15. Players today have exponentially more skill than even the late 2000s and better trainers. The stars of today can play 15-18 and sometimes even more. 3. CJ in the last year of his extension will count for less of the cap than Collins now. Plus CJs leadership and intangibles is worth 5 mil a year easily. Especially for how he changed our culture and mindset. That’s why we will never trade him
We will lose trey if we dont trade CJ in 2 years
Posted on 6/27/23 at 8:30 am to Balsamic_duck
We are resigning Trey even if it means luxury tax. We MIGHT have to choose Trey over Herb but at that point CJ and Herb would be extremely tradable assets. CJ for his expiring and Herb for his future. That’s if we don’t restructure him as soon as next year if he goes off this year. Something like 5year/100mil starting with 16 mil year 1 with a 2 mil pay bump each year. He gets big money a year or 2 sooner and we can get better value on the back 3-4 years of the deal. You are making it seem way harder than it actually is to resign him. Plus 2 years is forever in NBA time. If Denver has enough talent to win then so do we.
Posted on 6/27/23 at 8:38 am to PrayingMantis
quote:
We are resigning Trey even if it means luxury tax. We MIGHT have to choose Trey over Herb but at that point CJ and Herb would be extremely tradable assets. CJ for his expiring and Herb for his future. That’s if we don’t restructure him as soon as next year if he goes off this year. Something like 5year/100mil starting with 16 mil year 1 with a 2 mil pay bump each year. He gets big money a year or 2 sooner and we can get better value on the back 3-4 years of the deal. You are making it seem way harder than it actually is to resign him. Plus 2 years is forever in NBA time. If Denver has enough talent to win then so do we.
You cant restructure contracts in the NBA, so what you're describing we do with trey is not possible. Banking on this team paying the luxury is bad news considering we've never done it and we just traded 4 2nds to dump Graham so we could avoid it
Posted on 6/27/23 at 8:57 am to Balsamic_duck
A contract for four or more seasons can be renegotiated after the third anniversary of its signing, extension, or previous renegotiation (if the previous negotiation increased any season's salary by more than 4.5%). Contracts for fewer than four seasons cannot be renegotiated. A contract cannot be renegotiated between March 1 and June 30 of any year.
Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract, and the salary in the then-current season can be increased only to the extent that the team has room under the cap (and cannot increase the player's salary beyond the maximum salary). A renegotiation can only be used to provide a salary increase -- players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create more cap room for the team.
Unless I’m mistaken Treys rookie contract was for 4 years. I’m pretty sure BI will be coming off the books as well so we would be under the cap so you make the Trey deal first and sign BI after because he will be getting max money regardless. Even if this is not possible WE ARE RESIGNING TREY so stop being a little bitch. Some how you have become the most annoying poster on Pelicans Talk which is a hard fear to accomplish
Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract, and the salary in the then-current season can be increased only to the extent that the team has room under the cap (and cannot increase the player's salary beyond the maximum salary). A renegotiation can only be used to provide a salary increase -- players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create more cap room for the team.
Unless I’m mistaken Treys rookie contract was for 4 years. I’m pretty sure BI will be coming off the books as well so we would be under the cap so you make the Trey deal first and sign BI after because he will be getting max money regardless. Even if this is not possible WE ARE RESIGNING TREY so stop being a little bitch. Some how you have become the most annoying poster on Pelicans Talk which is a hard fear to accomplish
This post was edited on 6/27/23 at 9:00 am
Posted on 6/27/23 at 9:04 am to PrayingMantis
quote:
I’m pretty sure BI will be coming off the books as well so we would be under the cap so you make the Trey deal first and sign BI after because he will be getting max money regardless.
This is not something you can manipulate with Order Of Operations. Even if BI coming "off the books" gave the team cap space to do some shennanigans with Trey's contract, they would need max cap space after Trey is signed to then resign BI. Getting under the cap with BI would require renouncing your rights to him and no longer having his Bird Rights meaning you'd need $50 million in cap space in addition to whatever you do with Trey to resign BI.
Posted on 6/27/23 at 9:09 am to TigerinATL
frick I was banking on his Bird rights allowing us to pull this off. Every time I think I understand these complicated arse rules another one shits on my ideas. Plus new cba is gonna add more shite to the shitstorm
Posted on 6/27/23 at 9:13 am to PrayingMantis
Yeah, I haven't even looked at most of the new rules. I just know that they are aimed at the Warriors and the Pels became collateral damage.
Posted on 6/27/23 at 9:20 am to TigerinATL
I was really hoping the new CBA would do something to help teams that draft well. Everything they do to “help small markets” ends up hurting us 10x worse. Like being able to resign for more money. Yea you can get more money staying but that extra money still counts towards cap so it ended up fricking over smaller markets. They need to make players you draft only count towards 85% of cap to at least balance out that extra money for superstars. Idk though somehow that will frick us in the arse too with our luck. Currently and even ore with new cba the way it will be is how lucky you are and not how smart you are
Posted on 6/27/23 at 9:40 am to PrayingMantis
It should be called the OKC Paradox.
Drafting three players in consecutive drafts who later won MVP should have gotten the Thunder a ring. Instead, the team sold off pieces to avoid a large tax bill.
Subsequent changes made to supposedly fix this just made it worse.
Drafting three players in consecutive drafts who later won MVP should have gotten the Thunder a ring. Instead, the team sold off pieces to avoid a large tax bill.
Subsequent changes made to supposedly fix this just made it worse.
Posted on 6/27/23 at 10:04 am to teke184
It’s gonna happen to them again if they don’t fix this shite. Shai will be max, so will Giddey and then Jaylin and Chet will probably too so they will have to trade one by 2025. So the new CBA which is aimed to stop big money teams will force teams like us and OKC to go into luxury tax to have a 2-3 year contender window that will inevitably be a conference finals appearance at best. Like I said before it’s gonna come down to who is lucky, not who was smart and made good calculated moves.
Posted on 6/27/23 at 10:05 am to PrayingMantis
quote:
I was really hoping the new CBA would do something to help teams that draft well. Everything they do to “help small markets” ends up hurting us 10x worse. Like being able to resign for more money. Yea you can get more money staying but that extra money still counts towards cap so it ended up fricking over smaller markets. They need to make players you draft only count towards 85% of cap to at least balance out that extra money for superstars. Idk though somehow that will frick us in the arse too with our luck. Currently and even ore with new cba the way it will be is how lucky you are and not how smart you are
The new CBA will frick teams that draft well. It just is not possible to keep CJ BI Zion and Trey when they are all making 30 plus million and Trey will absolutely be getting 30m/yr when he is due. Gayle will shell out a little luxury money but she's not throwing around warriors money and she damn sure isn't paying luxury for a team thats not contending.
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