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Message
re: New Orleans Pelicans are willing to part ways with Brandon Ingram in hopes of getting Dame
Posted on 6/29/21 at 7:48 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 6/29/21 at 7:48 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If Dame were 26 going on 27 I'd be all for the move. The problem is he's old and will be VERY old, very quickly. We'd be selling our future for the present and the only way we could build a title-contending roster is based on unrealistic hopes and prayers.
Dame is all about cost because you are going to want to be able to make a major trade to replace him as he declines. Otherwise you're opening the window now only to have it slam shut in 3-4 years. Ingram plus a few picks you can live with. Kira and one of NAW/Hayes and 3-4 picks you can live with. Ingram and a 4+ picks and you may have ensured Zion gets to his 2nd contract, but you've made it a lot less likely he goes for a 3rd.
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Posted on 6/29/21 at 7:53 am to SlowFlowPro
Those are all fair. You and I simply disagree completely on where Dame will be in four years and where BI will be in 4 years.
I see no reason that Dame will not be an elite player in 4 years. He is right there with Steph as the best deep shooter in the league. From what I have seen, he has decreased his dependence on his athleticism already and he has no significant injury history. I also greatly value his leadership. He brings it every single night. That would be huge for this team and for Zion's development. He also brings the belief that he is going to win every single night.
BI is a nice player. I would hope to keep him because I think he can be a third best player on a champion. But if we have to give him up to get Dame for the next 4 years, I do it. BI over the next four years will not be in the same category as Dame, whether that be on the court or personality wise either.
In my opinion, you don't make plans in the NBA for longer than 4 year windows. Dame with BI and Zion would be best but Dame and Zion is infinitely better than Zion and BI.
I see no reason that Dame will not be an elite player in 4 years. He is right there with Steph as the best deep shooter in the league. From what I have seen, he has decreased his dependence on his athleticism already and he has no significant injury history. I also greatly value his leadership. He brings it every single night. That would be huge for this team and for Zion's development. He also brings the belief that he is going to win every single night.
BI is a nice player. I would hope to keep him because I think he can be a third best player on a champion. But if we have to give him up to get Dame for the next 4 years, I do it. BI over the next four years will not be in the same category as Dame, whether that be on the court or personality wise either.
In my opinion, you don't make plans in the NBA for longer than 4 year windows. Dame with BI and Zion would be best but Dame and Zion is infinitely better than Zion and BI.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 8:13 am to ThePistol
Lillard is 30, not 36.
Steph is 33, Harden is 31, CP3 is 36, Durant is 32, Paul George is 31, Westbrook is 32, Jimmy Butler is 31, JJ is 37, Dragic and Rondo are 35, etc. etc.
I think Dame still has 3 to 4 years of top level play. That’s what you are trading for.
Again, IMO you need to either keep BI to pair with Zion and Dame or have enough assets to bring in another good player to play with Zion, Dame and Zo.
Steph is 33, Harden is 31, CP3 is 36, Durant is 32, Paul George is 31, Westbrook is 32, Jimmy Butler is 31, JJ is 37, Dragic and Rondo are 35, etc. etc.
I think Dame still has 3 to 4 years of top level play. That’s what you are trading for.
Again, IMO you need to either keep BI to pair with Zion and Dame or have enough assets to bring in another good player to play with Zion, Dame and Zo.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 8:21 am to Suntiger
Lillard is about to be 31. There were only 2 players over 32 in the top 50 in ppg last season. So him being elite the next 3-4 seasons is possible, it's just not likely. People pointing out the exceptions don't support the outcome. He will more than likely start to decline soon. Just a question of when. It is a gamble..
Posted on 6/29/21 at 8:28 am to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
You need wings in the NBA, stars or depth. So no I don’t think they compete against the Suns
Dame
Lonzo
RoCo
Zion
Hayes
NAW
MLE Shooter
Adams
Hart
Naji
Kira
That team could compete with these Suns/Clippers teams, IMO.
Maybe I just have more faith in NAW than you do, but I think he could put up good numbers given consistent minutes. Look at his stats from his starts last season.
Who is a better 1/2 in the NBA than Lillard/Zion? LeBron/AD, Kawhi/Leonard, Brooklyn trio, I'm having trouble thinking of any other pairings that are that good
Posted on 6/29/21 at 8:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Dramatic. JJ was called out by a lot of media guys after his bitch-fest.
After what we did to JJ, we are seen as a franchise that does not treat veterans properly.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 8:35 am to brmark70816
quote:He's an exception already, he was third in scoring this past year
People pointing out the exceptions don't support the outcome.
If you want to look at data, look at guards that have scored 29 ppg at age 30, and then look at the following 3-4 seasons of data for them. That might actually give you a better idea of how he's going to age, than just looking at age.
ETA: just to give some examples:
Kobe kept up high level play from ages 31-34
Wade kept up high level play from ages 31-34
Iverson Kept up high level play from ages 31-32 but fell off for 33-34
Curry has kept up high level play post 31, but did suffer an injury
So yeah, it's not a guarantee that Lillard continues his high level of play, but these are the stats you should be looking at, not just "how many players over the age of 32 are in the top 50 of scoring". The hypothetical Lillard move is risky and shortens the timeline for the team, but at the same time probably has the highest ceiling. I still go back and forth between the two hypotheticals (that will never happen anyway
) of trading for Lillard or trading for SGA.This post was edited on 6/29/21 at 8:48 am
Posted on 6/29/21 at 8:56 am to Epic Cajun
We are praying that we get Roco and a MLE shooter. I also don't think we can afford Ball, Hart, and a MLE guy if we also keep Adams
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:01 am to Epic Cajun
You just agreed with everything I said. It's a gamble. He could be elite for the next 4 years. It is possible. Just not likely. Age is a concern. It would pay off huge if he is able to maintain his level of play. He would be a better player than Ingram. But Ingram is the safer bet and he is much cheaper.
I am good either way. I'm not a fan of Ingram and Lillard is a star. There is nothing wrong with pointing out the negatives and questioning whether it really is the best course of action. It is a franchise altering decision. If we get it wrong, that is pretty much it for years. If we are right, we are a team to watch (although I don't think we are quite a contender barring additional moves)..
I am good either way. I'm not a fan of Ingram and Lillard is a star. There is nothing wrong with pointing out the negatives and questioning whether it really is the best course of action. It is a franchise altering decision. If we get it wrong, that is pretty much it for years. If we are right, we are a team to watch (although I don't think we are quite a contender barring additional moves)..
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:07 am to shel311
quote:
telling someone they're a miserable human being solely for not agreeing with you
You are a miserable human being Shel.
You’ll notice that despite disagreements everyone has around here, you are the only one that goes around hunting people to disagree with and turns those conversations up to an 11.
Then you become the most sensitive pussy in the world, crying endlessly the moment someone hits back.
I mean are you really still crying over me asking you if you took your anti-depressants days ago? You know, in response to you attempting to mock me?
Don’t start shite you can’t handle. If you don’t want to get insulted, don’t seek out people and insult them.
As for Lowe, I finally listened to the podcast, and shock and awe, you misrepresented another conversation to try and make your appeal to authority work.
Lowe specifically mentions the Pels and Sixers as the best and most likely trade partners. Talks about the organization doing right by Lillard but proceeds to infer that isn’t going to mean he picks LA and they send him ala AD/Kawhi, in fact says specifically Portland would not send him there because they lack assets. Says both sides would probably end up sending him somewhere he can compete, but that is a very broad range as Lowe spent a lot of time talking about teams like Minny as a potential landing spot.
So shock and awe, this whole cold quote attack of yours was more Shel manufactured bullshite to try and score argument points on the Internet
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:09 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:I already showed you the math on how this works. Unless Ball and Hart combine for over 28 mil in the first year of their contracts, it's possible. We would have to move Bledsoe too, but that would be part of the Lillard trade.
I also don't think we can afford Ball, Hart, and a MLE guy if we also keep Adams
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:10 am to Bronc
For me a lot of Dame is just the mindset you get with him. I wouldn't take every 30 year old. But like CP, I think Dames contributions would be more than just putting the ball in the basket. His impact on this franchise would be felt longer than he was actually here, imo.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:11 am to Bronc
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:16 am to Bronc
quote:This is fresh
You are a miserable human being Shel.
I don't have a dog in this hunt, you guys are arguing over something that only Lillard and the front office of Portland knows. I tend to think that he probably doesn't have as much leverage as most stars who forced their way out due to his age and contract though. It's unlikely that he has another huge contract after this one, so the team trading for him is really only trading for him for this contract. But, as I said, who knows?
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:16 am to CP3forMVP
quote:I agree, and if we could somehow keep Kira here, I think he could learn a ton from Dame.
I think Dames contributions would be more than just putting the ball in the basket. His impact on this franchise would be felt longer than he was actually here, imo.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:21 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
We have taken some black eyes, especially the JJ stuff this year.
After what we did to JJ, we are seen as a franchise that does not treat veterans properly.
Jrue Holiday had alot of value, played hard and played well, asked to be traded to a contender privately, and his request was accommodated in a way to benefited all parties.
JJ Redick had a sliver of value, played like shite when he did play, asked to be sent to a specific geographic region where nobody wanted him, then threw a bitch fit from his sofa because he thinks his long tenure in the NBA has earned him some 'Do What You Want' status
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:25 am to jmcwhrter
quote:Right, like the Pels owed him something because he chose to sign a contract here, literally because we paid the most (he even said that). And, he was only here for 1.5 years, it's not like he was some stalwart that was with the franchise for several years.
JJ Redick had a sliver of value, played like shite when he did play, asked to be sent to a specific geographic region where nobody wanted him, then threw a bitch fit from his sofa because he thinks his long tenure in the NBA has earned him some 'Do What You Want' status
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:26 am to jmcwhrter
jrue doesn't have a microphone to piss and moan into like JJ though
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:33 am to jmcwhrter
quote:
Redick had a sliver of value, played like shite when he did play, asked to be sent to a specific geographic region where nobody wanted him, then threw a bitch fit from his sofa because he thinks his long tenure in the NBA has earned him some 'Do What You Want' status
JJ: Trade me
Pels: give us the beginning of the season, if it doesn't work we'll trade you somewhere you'll like
JJ: *plays like shite and tanks value*
Pels: lol go to Mavs bum
JJ: Pikachu face
This post was edited on 6/29/21 at 9:33 am
Posted on 6/29/21 at 9:38 am to Bronc
quote:Funny, since you're the guy getting into it with multiple dudes lately and others calling you insufferable. Again, you're the common denominator, not me. That alone shows you're just making shite up.
You’ll notice that despite disagreements everyone has around here, you are the only one that goes around hunting people to disagree with and turns those conversations up to an 11.
quote:Problem with this nonsense is I never hit you in order for you to hit back. I disagree with you then you lose your mind and start name calling. You can't seem to grasp that, as you flip your shite for a simple disagreement then tell me I'm melting after you go off the rails calling me all kinds of names. It's pretty funny to see play out.
Then you become the most sensitive pussy in the world, crying endlessly the moment someone hits back.
quote:See above
Don’t start shite you can’t handle
quote:See above, I don't insult you, I simply disagree with you and you flip the frick out...every time. Same thing you did with the other guys these past couple of days and continue to get called out.
If you don’t want to get insulted, don’t seek out people and insult them.
quote:He literally said Portland's front office won't send him just anywhere and will work with him because of the bad rep they'd get if they didn't, so exactly what I said
As for Lowe, I finally listened to the podcast, and shock and awe, you misrepresented another conversation to try and make your appeal to authority work.
We've reached the blatant lying portion of the day for Bronc awfully early today.
quote:It was facts and quotes, but you go for lies and nonsense. That's your thing, that's why you are constantly getting called out by dudes and in fights with dudes. You've fought with more dudes the past 2 days on Pels Talk then I have in probably weeks
So shock and awe, this whole cold quote attack of yours was more Shel manufactured bullshite to try and score argument points on the Internet
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