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Message
re: Murray to Pels is OFFICIALLY OFFICIAL
Posted on 7/7/24 at 11:24 am to NOSHAU
Posted on 7/7/24 at 11:24 am to NOSHAU
quote:
Too bad that protection was not on the 2025 pick.
Yeah its a useless protection. It only applies if both 2027 picks end up in top 4. Meaning if pels and bucks both stunk it up- highly unlikely.
0
Posted on 7/7/24 at 12:56 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Yall are trying to make this way too complicated
Its not us buddy. Trust me.
Haha.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 1:06 am to Chalkywhite84
Many Hawks fans chirping that Murray’s defense hasn’t been that great at all and some that say it’s even been Trae Young level bad and he’s been living off San Antonio days reputation
Maybe some are salty. Haven’t paid enough attention to make a judgement.
Maybe some are salty. Haven’t paid enough attention to make a judgement.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 6:43 am to England_Pelican
There's definitely some truth to Hawks' fans claims. Griff is making a bet that Murray's mediocre defense in Atlanta is the result of playing with Trae. I personally think it's obvious that Murray detested him.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 7:02 am to GOP_Tiger
Murray said something yesterday along the lines of “when only one or 2 guys play defense, you don’t have a defense. “
We saw it here when you had Davis and Asik but terrible perimeter defense. It often made Asik look like the person that failed, rather than the person that was being asked to do too much because his teammates sucked.
We saw it here when you had Davis and Asik but terrible perimeter defense. It often made Asik look like the person that failed, rather than the person that was being asked to do too much because his teammates sucked.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 7:11 am to TigerinATL
I don't think he's an elite defender by any means, but we just need him to be average and a positive offensive player. One that makes life easier for the other 4 on the court.
In regard to his comment, I agree. Gotta have 5 dudes who try
In regard to his comment, I agree. Gotta have 5 dudes who try
Posted on 7/10/24 at 7:38 am to htran90
Murray also wasn’t playing the 1 on defense. He’s 6’5, but not overly strong. So while playing with Trae, he was being asked to guard more wing type players and that’s not something he’s particularly good at. What he is though is he’s quick enough to guard opposing pg’s and then his 6’5 length becomes a defensive advantage. In theory, he could be the smallest guy on the court for us in a lot of alignments. Should make for a fairly strong defense IMO.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:01 am to PELsu
I think he was tasked with playing SGs and he's not Jrue. But he should be fine against most PGs and Herb can take on the SGs.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:26 am to ghost2most
IMO, we should put Herb on the opponents best wing/guard, and DJ on the opponents second best wing/guard. If they opponent has two very good wings/guards then DJ gets the smaller one and Herb gets the bigger one.
Herb has to start to take advantage of his defense vs opponents best players, it would be dumb to bring him off the bench and not maximize that.
It's going to be an interesting camp if we don't trade BI.
Herb has to start to take advantage of his defense vs opponents best players, it would be dumb to bring him off the bench and not maximize that.
It's going to be an interesting camp if we don't trade BI.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:36 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Herb has to start to take advantage of his defense vs opponents best players, it would be dumb to bring him off the bench and not maximize that.
I understand your point and its a good enough point that its tough to argue.
At the same time, we need our offense to outplay other teams offenses and then not shite the bed at the end of the game.
If we have to rely on Herb to lock up best player BECAUSE our offense isn't good enough on its own then that's a fricking problem with Murray/ CJ/ Zion whether we have BI or whoever the frick starts.
We need to use Herb to close games and put the nail in the coffin, not rely on him to shutdown the best player because our offense isn't good enough and we lose otherwise.
Its a losing mentality even though I get the reasoning.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:37 am to PELsu
I think the best defensive lineup for Boston is:
White
Holiday
Brown
Tatum
Porzingis/horford
We're a few inches and 20lb short, but a small ball lineup is nasty.
Murray
Jones
Ingram
Murphy
Zion
Shortest guy might be 6'5? With wide switchability and help defense thanks to herb
White
Holiday
Brown
Tatum
Porzingis/horford
We're a few inches and 20lb short, but a small ball lineup is nasty.
Murray
Jones
Ingram
Murphy
Zion
Shortest guy might be 6'5? With wide switchability and help defense thanks to herb
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:38 am to Dantheman504
The plan should be:
1. Outscore teams with the weapons we have
2. Use great defense to keep it distant
Not
1. Rely on great defense knowing we will get outscored
2. Hope our offense scores at the end of games.
1. Outscore teams with the weapons we have
2. Use great defense to keep it distant
Not
1. Rely on great defense knowing we will get outscored
2. Hope our offense scores at the end of games.
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 8:39 am
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:39 am to Dantheman504
quote:
At the same time, we need our offense to outplay other teams offenses and then not shite the bed at the end of the game.
What you need is a balanced lineup with enough shooting and defense. BI shooting 6+ 3s per game and attacking the rim more, like he did when he first got here and wasn't running the offense, is what they are going to need if this is going to work.
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 8:40 am
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:43 am to TigerinATL
quote:
What you need is a balanced lineup with enough shooting. BI shooting 6+ 3s per game and attacking the rim more, like he did when he first got here and wasn't running the offense, is what they are going to need if this is going to work
This is why we added a 2 way PG that can control the game. That same guy also maximizes CJ/ Trey to play that role instead of relying on BI.
I believe this is exactly what we plan to do in order to make it work. Otherwise we wouldn't have traded Dyson for a (2) way player that mainly maximizes our offense.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:52 am to Dantheman504
CJ has (2) biggest faults.
#1. Mediocre defense
#2. Playing out of role as PG
Murray does (2) things.
#1. Compliments CJ's defense
#2. Maximizes CJ's offense
So we traded an elite bench defender to maximize our overall game/ offense and now apparently fans think we "need to push defense" and "CJ is most effective off the bench"
Headaches
#1. Mediocre defense
#2. Playing out of role as PG
Murray does (2) things.
#1. Compliments CJ's defense
#2. Maximizes CJ's offense
So we traded an elite bench defender to maximize our overall game/ offense and now apparently fans think we "need to push defense" and "CJ is most effective off the bench"
Headaches
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:54 am to Dantheman504
If we outscore teams and then Herb comes in while other teams need offense what the frick do they do. That's how you win games and become a contender.
The point is to rely on Herb's defense to close games not win games.
In other words If all of our "starters" play avg 30min and "starting doesn't matter" then:
Starters:
Murray
CJ
Trey
Closers:
Murray
Herb
Trey
Makes sense. Unless you simply don't trust our offense or the player that we just acquired.
The point is to rely on Herb's defense to close games not win games.
In other words If all of our "starters" play avg 30min and "starting doesn't matter" then:
Starters:
Murray
CJ
Trey
Closers:
Murray
Herb
Trey
Makes sense. Unless you simply don't trust our offense or the player that we just acquired.
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 9:02 am
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:03 am to Dantheman504
quote:
At the same time, we need our offense to outplay other teams offenses and then not shite the bed at the end of the game.
If we have to rely on Herb to lock up best player BECAUSE our offense isn't good enough on its own then that's a fricking problem with Murray/ CJ/ Zion whether we have BI or whoever the frick starts.
IMO we can have a good offense with Zion and DJ as the main offensive contributors, while surrounded with players who can knock down open shots. It would be silly to not have one of those "role players" be an all defense wing. One of the other spots should be a center. And the last spot should be a shooter.
We are stupid if we're so set on having CJ and BI in the starting lineup that we'd send Herb to the bench. We don't need 4 ball dominant players in the starting lineup.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:05 am to Epic Cajun
I really don't think Herb is going to the bench. He's arguably our 2nd or 3rd best player and IMO has surpassed BI in the eyes of the staff/FO in terms of importance.
I really think BI gets moved at some point before the season.
I really think BI gets moved at some point before the season.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:12 am to ghost2most
quote:
really don't think Herb is going to the bench. He's arguably our 2nd or 3rd best player and IMO has surpassed BI in the eyes of the staff/FO in terms of importance.
And that's completely understandable. The issue is that our fans choose offense 99x out of 100 unless it fits their 1% opinion on Herb.
Any other player and its "hell yeah CJ/ Trey/ Zion/ Murray about to run up the score send defense off the bench"
People are avoiding the overall scheme just because its Herb. Which I get it, but running up the score and a fresh Herb off the bench to terrorize backups and tired starters is most ideal if we can outscore teams and aren't relying on Herbs defense to win games.
Both are true. People just don't want to acknowledge that because of feelings.
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 9:13 am
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:30 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
We are stupid if we're so set on having CJ and BI in the starting lineup that we'd send Herb to the bench. We don't need 4 ball dominant players in the starting lineup.
I don't think BI will be here. Furthermore Murray eliminates CJ's "ball dominant" habits.
Murray averaged 8reb/ 9ast his last year in SA as a true PG so he also isn't really a "ball dominant player"
Murray
CJ
Trey
Zion
Is the least ball dominant rotation with the best offense, only Zion needing the ball in his hand, with CJ/ Trey catch and shoot.
You don't need Herb as a pass through player in this scenario or to minimize shots. You also still have quality defense between CJ/ Murray and size with Trey/ Zion while guaranteed to outscore the opposing team.
Essentially build the team to where Herb is a bonus/ luxury not a lifeline
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