re: Is there anyone left who thinks BI is worth his next contract?

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The only pro argument I can see is that we can't get anyone better because no one wants to come here.

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I know this isn't your argument but we don't need someone better than BI in return to make the team better.

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Curious, what are some other options?

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My first thought is looking to Cleveland. They're staggering Mobley/Allen a lot, there's still a lot of questions on whether they can work together. Plus if Spida leaves, they could be looking for a replacement scorer in moving 1 of those 2 dudes.


I'd probably want either of those 2 back for BI before Trae Young. Obviously you imagine Mobley gets shot down quickly but you at least try.

Hell, I also wouldn't want to automatically get rid of Val if we landed a Jarrett Allen type, depending on how cheap we can resign him for. He's just criminally underrated by too many Pels fans IMO.

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I'd probably want either of those 2 back for BI before Trae Young. Obviously you imagine Mobley gets shot down quickly but you at least try. Hell, I also wouldn't want to automatically get rid of Val if we landed a Jarrett Allen type, depending on how cheap we can resign him for. He's just criminally underrated by too many Pels fans IMO.

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Jonas has been playing well with point Zion. Having him + another good center would be amazing. I don’t know who Cleveland values more between Mobley and Allen but I would gladly trade BI + picks for either to be honest.

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I've gone from mostly out to fully out after I ran the On/Off defensive numbers last week. My eye test says that he's been passable when he tries. The On/Off DRtg numbers says that he must not try most of the time.

Herb 111.9 110.7 -1.2
CJ 112.9 110 -2.9
Zion 112.6 108.9 -3.7
JV 115 107 -8
BI 117.1 109 -8.1

I was very surprised to see Ingram with the worst On/Off DRtg numbers. But this is a big enough sample size to be saying something.

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I wouldn't normally fact check you ATL, but you're going to have to tell me where you got these numbers, and/or what they actually mean. Are you looking at the whole year, or some other sample size?


If you go to basketball reference website for stats and look at on/off for this year:
BI NetRtg -2.0
ORtg 118.5 on
ORtg 117.2 off
+1.3
DRtg 115.0 on
DRtg 111.7 off
-3.3


Zion NetRtg -6.8
ORtg 117.1 on
ORtg 119.0 off
-1.9
DRtg 116.1 on
DRtg 111.2 off
-4.9

Herb NetRtg +3.9
ORtg 119.2 on
ORtg 116.5 off
+2.7
DRtg 113.2 on
DRtg 114.4 off
+1.2

CJ NetRtg -0.8
ORtg 118.9 on
ORtg 117.1 off
+1.8
DRtg 115.2 on
DRtg 112.4 off
-2.8

JV NetRtg +0.5
ORtg 120.7 on
ORtg 115.0 off
+5.7
DRtg 116.2 on
DRtg 111.0 off
-5.2

I have sympathy for BI

I think he is very smart and nobody has more dedication to the sport. He lives and sleeps the game - hardest working guy on the team.

Unfortunately, I think the severity of his medical condition DVT is a secret. It's why the Lakers were quick to get rid of him.

He has admitted to having a special diet but I'm guessing he takes medication, perhaps an anticoagulant which could impact his ability to recover from injuries and illness. It could explain his hot/cold energy levels.

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I know this isn't your argument but we don't need someone better than BI in return to make the team better.

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Ive said that as well. But who do you think can make this team better, that isnt' a better player than BI? I mentioned Jerami Grant before, but the more i look into him the more i dont' think his reputation as a defender is what you actual get from him.

It doesn't matter what you think of BI as a closer, or Zion, if you get rid of BI, then you have to find someone else to close from the guard position. Every legit team has at least two closers. You can't just expect Zion to drive and score or drive and dish every single possession. Giannis is 10xs better at that than Zion and even he needs Middleton to take pressure off of him.


The problem i have is there a plenty of guys I wouldn't mind taking a chance on replacing BI with that are younger and cheaper.
Sexton and Simons are the two i think of that could possibly grow into a closer alongside Zion. I'd say both are better shooters than BI, and would probably take even more 3's with us, and Sexton can get to the rim on anybody and his a higher foul rate on drives than BI.
But both of those guys would still give us a problem defensively with CJ as the other guard.

In an ideal world, CJ is the worst defender in the lineup (I think Zion's defense is more than adequate when it matters), but we can't have two CJ type defenders out there who can easily be taken advantage of. It's a lot easier to hide one bad defender than it is 2, especially undersized defenders.


Would i would prefer is to figure out what the Nets want for Bridges. Maybe they don't want BI, but whatever they do want, we can get for them using BI and other assets.
If they want Simons and 5 firsts, then we can do that.
hell it could be a simple BI/Trae Young/Mikal Bridges swap.




If the Jazz offered Sexton/Kessler/future1st for BI, I'd take that deal this offseason, assuming the playoffs go as what i would expect it to go for a team that doesn't know how to close games. And i'd want to keep JV and utilize him more as a scoring option against second units and play through him when Zion is out. Surround JV with Hawk/Trey/Ryan/Jose and dare teams to not double him.
I do think Sexton can be as much of a Robin to Zion as BI is, and i think it allows CJ to stay off ball still while also replacing BI's ball handling with a better ball handling PG/scorer, as well as a better C&S 3P shooter. And CJ is still there to help hit shots in the clutch b/c he'll likely have the 3rd best defender on him that he more often than not can create his own shot against if needed.
and i think Sexton's defense is ok enough to get by in the clutch. Iv'e seen him give the effort necessary late in games, and he's not as small as you think.

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Ok. We are here and You are the Pels GM.

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IMO Detroit would be hot and heavy on the heels trying to acquire BI and would likely overpay to get him.

3 team trade:
Pistons: Ingram
Cavs: Nance, 2024 1st from Detroit
Pels: Allen, Ivey, Stewart, Future detroit 1st

We revamp our big man rotation with two starting quality centers while shedding around 6 million in tax space and pick up an additional 1st. Also add a shooter to come in as a super 6th man and lead guard off the bench, and could be a CJ replacement as he ages.

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3 team trade:
Pistons: Ingram
Cavs: Nance, 2024 1st from Detroit
Pels: Allen, Ivey, Stewart, Future detroit 1st

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You got Cleveland giving up Jarrett Allen for one 1st?

I know it's a 2024 1st but this is not a good draft at the top.

They actually want to keep all of their young players if they can.

Is BI and Cade the best pairing? Probably not in my opinion.

And again Cavs valued Allen higher and wouldn't take this value anyway. Especially not getting a starting center back and having only Larry.