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Started By
Message
re: Bill Simmons says a reliable source told him Zion won't be on the Pelicans come Thursday
Posted on 6/19/23 at 10:53 am to 3PieceSpicy
Posted on 6/19/23 at 10:53 am to 3PieceSpicy
Agreed that Sharpe won’t be dealt. I also find it difficult to imagine the Hornets turning down Zion, or pick packages etc for Miller. I really think Scoot goes number two to someone, maybe even Charlotte.
That being said, Charlotte is interesting as they will have cap space and won’t need to salary match exactly. That’s pretty huge when discussing teams like us, and possibly Phoenix facing salary hell moving forward.
So for example, the major pieces could be Zion to Charlotte, Ayton and 2 to us, and Jonas to Phoenix. Charlotte could send a salary as low as Cody Martin and the numbers should still work. Then it’s just making sure Phoenix is satisfied enough to sell the idea of dumping Ayton. Maybe there’s a pick, maybe role players like Naji, Kira, Billy etc make sense to fill out their rotation. But I don’t think it would be too hard to pull off if that’s what we wanted. Now our salary structure moving forward with Ayton gets ugly, but he is 24 and would be an upgrade.
That being said, Charlotte is interesting as they will have cap space and won’t need to salary match exactly. That’s pretty huge when discussing teams like us, and possibly Phoenix facing salary hell moving forward.
So for example, the major pieces could be Zion to Charlotte, Ayton and 2 to us, and Jonas to Phoenix. Charlotte could send a salary as low as Cody Martin and the numbers should still work. Then it’s just making sure Phoenix is satisfied enough to sell the idea of dumping Ayton. Maybe there’s a pick, maybe role players like Naji, Kira, Billy etc make sense to fill out their rotation. But I don’t think it would be too hard to pull off if that’s what we wanted. Now our salary structure moving forward with Ayton gets ugly, but he is 24 and would be an upgrade.
1
Posted on 6/19/23 at 11:02 am to PELsu
I like this one...
Pels get Ayton, Cody Martin, 2, 34, and a 2025 1-4 protected 1st (saves us 8.9m)
Hornets get Zion, 52
Suns get Jonas, Bouknight, and 27 (saves them 12m)
Draft Scoot at 2, Bufkin at 14, and Strawther at 34 (two-way)
Sign Trey Lyles
CJ / Scoot / Jose
BI / Dyson / Bufkin
Herb / Martin / Naji
Trey / Lyles / EJ
Ayton / Nance / Karlo
Pels get Ayton, Cody Martin, 2, 34, and a 2025 1-4 protected 1st (saves us 8.9m)
Hornets get Zion, 52
Suns get Jonas, Bouknight, and 27 (saves them 12m)
Draft Scoot at 2, Bufkin at 14, and Strawther at 34 (two-way)
Sign Trey Lyles
CJ / Scoot / Jose
BI / Dyson / Bufkin
Herb / Martin / Naji
Trey / Lyles / EJ
Ayton / Nance / Karlo
This post was edited on 6/19/23 at 11:12 am
Posted on 6/19/23 at 11:08 am to Erdace
Bye Zion!!!!
Posted on 6/19/23 at 2:24 pm to ghost2most
quote:
Most of the league is analytics driven and BI is not an analytics player. To much inefficiency
What the heck? I love Slim
Posted on 6/19/23 at 2:27 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
sure Charlotte would love Bridges.
bridges is on the USA team for the fiba world championship.
zion will have to play some before he commands a bridges deal.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 2:27 pm to BallHawk
I don’t want anything to do with Ayton. The guy is literally trying to be dumped a year after signing his deal and basically quit in the playoffs.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 2:33 pm to Pels_Yaz
KOC on the ringer today
6. It’s Time To Trade Zion Williamson.
The Pelicans are reportedly one of the teams targeting Scoot Henderson. The G League Ignite point guard grew up idolizing Russell Westbrook and plays a lot like him as a powerhouse driver, fearless scorer, and skilled playmaker. But to trade into the top three of Thursday’s draft, New Orleans will have to part with a star. Are the Pelicans really willing to part with Zion Williamson or Brandon Ingram?
Reports say the Pelicans are more willing to offload Williamson, who has been a dominant force when he’s on the court, averaging 26.7 points, on elite efficiency, plus 7.1 rebounds and four assists a game in his two All-Star seasons. But he’s also played only 114 games in four years—just 37 percent of his possible games—and will make a whopping $194 million over the next five seasons.
Zion plummeted from the top 10 to no. 28 in Bill Simmons’s latest Trade Value rankings. And that’s fair. As great as Williamson has been when healthy, he’s had knee injuries going back to high school and college. Throw in his questionable off-court decision-making, a subpar work ethic, and a lack of comradery with his teammates, and you’ve checked a lot of the boxes for a player who historically doesn’t live up to their potential. If Zion miraculously stays healthy, he’s going to put up a ton of points and generate baskets for his teammates, but he can’t space the floor on offense and he’s proved to be a liability on defense. Are we totally sure Williamson is even a “16-game player” if he can ever make it to the playoffs?
There’s still a crowd that believes Zion is a lottery ticket, praying for a jackpot of generational talent to finally pay off. But cashing that in for Scoot might make sense at this juncture, and still give the Pelicans a chance at an All-NBA talent.
Henderson is no surefire bet to be a star, which is why the Hornets or Blazers would even consider trading their picks. He’s small, which negatively affects his ability to score around the basket and get stops on defense. He’s also never proved he can shoot with efficiency, a critical skill for a guard. With that said, he definitely has it vibes. He’s a selfless playmaker, and his scoring flashes resemble those of star guards. In New Orleans, Henderson would get to work with arguably the best shooting instructor in the world, assistant coach Fred Vinson, giving him a better chance of reaching his upside.
FanDuel TV’s Shams Charania reported last week that the Hornets prefer Ingram, who has had some health issues of his own. But he’s played in 72.5 percent of total possible games with the Pelicans and he averaged 27-6-6 in a playoff series. Most reports have said the Hornets favor the forward Miller over Henderson, so if that’s true it would make sense they’d want a more advanced version of Miller in Ingram, who will still only be 25 years old next season. As for Portland, my sense from league sources is that Portland’s preference is Williamson, who’d be a weapon in the pick-and-roll and in handoffs alongside Damian Lillard (should he stick around) and Shaedon Sharpe.
If the Pelicans are looking to move up, they also have the 14th pick in this draft, and a treasure chest of future firsts that includes all of their own picks, a Lakers first in 2024 or 2025, and a bevy of Bucks picks. New Orleans could also dangle young talent like Trey Murphy, Dyson Daniels, or Herb Jones. Regardless, New Orleans should be focused on getting a haul for Zion this summer. Look at how Washington fumbled its superstar trade. This could be the Pelicans’ last chance.
6. It’s Time To Trade Zion Williamson.
The Pelicans are reportedly one of the teams targeting Scoot Henderson. The G League Ignite point guard grew up idolizing Russell Westbrook and plays a lot like him as a powerhouse driver, fearless scorer, and skilled playmaker. But to trade into the top three of Thursday’s draft, New Orleans will have to part with a star. Are the Pelicans really willing to part with Zion Williamson or Brandon Ingram?
Reports say the Pelicans are more willing to offload Williamson, who has been a dominant force when he’s on the court, averaging 26.7 points, on elite efficiency, plus 7.1 rebounds and four assists a game in his two All-Star seasons. But he’s also played only 114 games in four years—just 37 percent of his possible games—and will make a whopping $194 million over the next five seasons.
Zion plummeted from the top 10 to no. 28 in Bill Simmons’s latest Trade Value rankings. And that’s fair. As great as Williamson has been when healthy, he’s had knee injuries going back to high school and college. Throw in his questionable off-court decision-making, a subpar work ethic, and a lack of comradery with his teammates, and you’ve checked a lot of the boxes for a player who historically doesn’t live up to their potential. If Zion miraculously stays healthy, he’s going to put up a ton of points and generate baskets for his teammates, but he can’t space the floor on offense and he’s proved to be a liability on defense. Are we totally sure Williamson is even a “16-game player” if he can ever make it to the playoffs?
There’s still a crowd that believes Zion is a lottery ticket, praying for a jackpot of generational talent to finally pay off. But cashing that in for Scoot might make sense at this juncture, and still give the Pelicans a chance at an All-NBA talent.
Henderson is no surefire bet to be a star, which is why the Hornets or Blazers would even consider trading their picks. He’s small, which negatively affects his ability to score around the basket and get stops on defense. He’s also never proved he can shoot with efficiency, a critical skill for a guard. With that said, he definitely has it vibes. He’s a selfless playmaker, and his scoring flashes resemble those of star guards. In New Orleans, Henderson would get to work with arguably the best shooting instructor in the world, assistant coach Fred Vinson, giving him a better chance of reaching his upside.
FanDuel TV’s Shams Charania reported last week that the Hornets prefer Ingram, who has had some health issues of his own. But he’s played in 72.5 percent of total possible games with the Pelicans and he averaged 27-6-6 in a playoff series. Most reports have said the Hornets favor the forward Miller over Henderson, so if that’s true it would make sense they’d want a more advanced version of Miller in Ingram, who will still only be 25 years old next season. As for Portland, my sense from league sources is that Portland’s preference is Williamson, who’d be a weapon in the pick-and-roll and in handoffs alongside Damian Lillard (should he stick around) and Shaedon Sharpe.
If the Pelicans are looking to move up, they also have the 14th pick in this draft, and a treasure chest of future firsts that includes all of their own picks, a Lakers first in 2024 or 2025, and a bevy of Bucks picks. New Orleans could also dangle young talent like Trey Murphy, Dyson Daniels, or Herb Jones. Regardless, New Orleans should be focused on getting a haul for Zion this summer. Look at how Washington fumbled its superstar trade. This could be the Pelicans’ last chance.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 2:49 pm to cgrand
quote:
Henderson is no surefire bet to be a star, which is why the Hornets or Blazers would even consider trading their picks. He’s small, which negatively affects his ability to score around the basket and get stops on defense. He’s also never proved he can shoot with efficiency, a critical skill for a guard. With that said, he definitely has it vibes. He’s a selfless playmaker, and his scoring flashes resemble those of star guards. In New Orleans, Henderson would get to work with arguably the best shooting instructor in the world, assistant coach Fred Vinson, giving him a better chance of reaching his upside.
Is this supposed to make me want to trade Zion for Scoot? Having quite the opposite effect for this son
Posted on 6/19/23 at 2:51 pm to cgrand
quote:
The G League Ignite point guard grew up idolizing Russell Westbrook
Barf
quote:
As great as Williamson has been when healthy, he’s had knee injuries going back to high school and college. Throw in his questionable off-court decision-making, a subpar work ethic, and a lack of comradery with his teammates, and you’ve checked a lot of the boxes for a player who historically doesn’t live up to their potential. If Zion miraculously stays healthy, he’s going to put up a ton of points and generate baskets for his teammates, but he can’t space the floor on offense and he’s proved to be a liability on defense. Are we totally sure Williamson is even a “16-game player” if he can ever make it to the playoffs?
Fair
quote:
There’s still a crowd that believes Zion is a lottery ticket, praying for a jackpot of generational talent to finally pay off.
Where I am currently.
quote:
He’s also never proved he can shoot with efficiency, a critical skill for a guard.
Major red flag for me.
quote:
Most reports have said the Hornets favor the forward Miller over Henderson
The Hornets are one of the worst run franchises in sports so not surprising they prefer a murderer.
quote:
This could be the Pelicans’ last chance.
Nah
Posted on 6/19/23 at 2:53 pm to SCLSUMuddogs
quote:
Henderson is no surefire bet to be a star, which is why the Hornets or Blazers would even consider trading their picks. He’s small, which negatively affects his ability to score around the basket and get stops on defense. He’s also never proved he can shoot with efficiency, a critical skill for a guard. With that said, he definitely has it vibes. He’s a selfless playmaker, and his scoring flashes resemble those of star guards. In New Orleans, Henderson would get to work with arguably the best shooting instructor in the world, assistant coach Fred Vinson, giving him a better chance of reaching his upside.
Is this supposed to make me want to trade Zion for Scoot? Having quite the opposite effect for this son
Yeah, it's not that I LOVE Zion. I'm just not a big Scoot believer based on the comps.
I don't like Rose/Westbrook/Ja type guards.
They never win.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 2:59 pm to ghost2most
I mean they’ve won MVPs multiple playoff series and the teams they were on in their prime are historically competitive. If you’re talking about titles- how many chronically injured big men make it through the playoffs and win a title? Lets look at Embiid who won the MVP but has struggled to stay healthy every year in the playoffs.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 3:01 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:Both true, so I'd just prefer the one with the highest upside, Zion.
I mean they’ve won MVPs multiple playoff series and the teams they were on in their prime are historically competitive. If you’re talking about titles- how many chronically injured big men make it through the playoffs and win a title? Lets look at Embiid who won the MVP but has struggled to stay healthy every year in the playoffs.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 3:09 pm to shel311
I'm not big on the Scoot train either.
Like I posted earlier, we're almost at the bottom of Zion's value. I just don't see the logic in dealing him unless we get full value (Scoot, multiple 1sts, multiple swaps, and another young player from CHA...Portland has less to give).
Like I posted earlier, we're almost at the bottom of Zion's value. I just don't see the logic in dealing him unless we get full value (Scoot, multiple 1sts, multiple swaps, and another young player from CHA...Portland has less to give).
This post was edited on 6/19/23 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 6/19/23 at 3:11 pm to shel311
Zion's upside is infinitely higher than Scoot.
Guys like him come out every few years.
When was the last Zion?
The best players in the league who win titles are pretty unique.
Name me another player in NBA history like Giannis, Jokic, Steph, Lebron (barf). There really aren't any.
Zion fits in that list. You could I guess throw out Barkely but not exactly.
There are a bunch of Scoots and the common denominator is none of them won a title.
Guys like him come out every few years.
When was the last Zion?
The best players in the league who win titles are pretty unique.
Name me another player in NBA history like Giannis, Jokic, Steph, Lebron (barf). There really aren't any.
Zion fits in that list. You could I guess throw out Barkely but not exactly.
There are a bunch of Scoots and the common denominator is none of them won a title.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 3:14 pm to SlowFlowPro
I disagree that we are at the bottom of Zion’s value if we can get Scoot for him now.
It can definitely get lower than that with another injury or 2 or if he randomly throws a shite fit and demands a trade to only 1 destination (that likely won’t include Scoot level talent on a rookie deal).
It can definitely get lower than that with another injury or 2 or if he randomly throws a shite fit and demands a trade to only 1 destination (that likely won’t include Scoot level talent on a rookie deal).
Posted on 6/19/23 at 3:17 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
you’re talking about titles- how many chronically injured big men make it through the playoffs and win a title?
Bill Walton? I’m sure there are others
Posted on 6/19/23 at 3:17 pm to 3PieceSpicy
What do you think Zion's value would have been in December last year pre hamstring injury?
Do you think pulling a hamstring should change it that much?
Do you think pulling a hamstring should change it that much?
Posted on 6/19/23 at 3:19 pm to ghost2most
We keep saying this wothout really seeing Scoot play in the NBA. Honestly we haven’t seen Zion play a whole season unless you count the year with SVG.
I mean to be 4 years later we have Wemby, whos the next big thing. Yeah they don’t come out every draft but I would say talent every 4/5 years some guy comes out touted as next big thing.
My question how many if those talents have actually panned out other Bron. All those great NBA guys you named only one was a top overall pick- Bron. Giannis was midlottery and Jokic was 2nd round. No one ever thought they were going to be those guys (other than Bron).
If there were bunch of Scoots he wouldn’t be a top prospect in this years draft. If all you’re looking for is a title again I would again ask how many number one overall chronically injured big men have won a title?
I mean to be 4 years later we have Wemby, whos the next big thing. Yeah they don’t come out every draft but I would say talent every 4/5 years some guy comes out touted as next big thing.
My question how many if those talents have actually panned out other Bron. All those great NBA guys you named only one was a top overall pick- Bron. Giannis was midlottery and Jokic was 2nd round. No one ever thought they were going to be those guys (other than Bron).
If there were bunch of Scoots he wouldn’t be a top prospect in this years draft. If all you’re looking for is a title again I would again ask how many number one overall chronically injured big men have won a title?
Posted on 6/19/23 at 3:20 pm to ghost2most
Yes when it knocks you out the whole season and you have issues recovering from it.
Posted on 6/19/23 at 3:21 pm to SCLSUMuddogs
He won one as a the main guy back in 77; honestly trash after that. There arent others. Maybe bynum but he wasnt number one option.
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