- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Waco - the FBI should be razed to the ground
Posted on 4/27/20 at 12:30 pm to WestCoastAg
Posted on 4/27/20 at 12:30 pm to WestCoastAg
GOOD LAWD!!!!!..have I stumbled into the political board by mistake???
0
Posted on 4/27/20 at 12:52 pm to brmark70816
quote:
The children were not burned alive. The members murdered them as the place went up in flames. They were executed. Instead of surrendering and letting their children lived, they killed them. Blame the Government all you want. Try to play revisionist history about how it should have gone. The members kept their kids during an armed seige and when it went bad, they killed them. Point blank..
I suggest you read the autopsies. A lot of them died from smoke inhalation and other causes besides gun shots like the explosion that damaged the bunker causing a collapse that killed a few people including children. The 3 year old that was stabbed was found in at least two pieces.
This post was edited on 4/27/20 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 4/27/20 at 2:47 pm to Dam Guide
Also even the FBI has acknowledged most of the deaths where people were trapped and were mercy kills cause there was no way out
The FBI and ATF knew they wouldn't leave due to masks, but still pumped a known flamable gas into the confined spaces.....look at history leading up to it. Many times they pumped CS gas into buildings it went up in flames. This was a tv spot got wrong for them.
The FBI and ATF knew they wouldn't leave due to masks, but still pumped a known flamable gas into the confined spaces.....look at history leading up to it. Many times they pumped CS gas into buildings it went up in flames. This was a tv spot got wrong for them.
This post was edited on 4/27/20 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 4/27/20 at 2:51 pm to mikeboss550
There was one exit from the bunker that pointed toward the front of the building. One of the first big pushes from the combat vehicles was through the front to basically force gas at the bunker. It quite possibly trapped everyone in the bunker when it pushed all the shite in the building at the door.
Posted on 4/27/20 at 2:53 pm to Dam Guide
There is a reason they still teach this and Ruby Ridge to new agents on what not to do.
The BDs were compy fricked, and needed to be stopped I agree, bit the way the ATF and FBi went about it was completely unconstitutional.
The BDs were compy fricked, and needed to be stopped I agree, bit the way the ATF and FBi went about it was completely unconstitutional.
This post was edited on 4/27/20 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 4/28/20 at 2:54 am to Dam Guide
I really want you to think about what you are saying or implying. The building is coming down on top of them, there are flames everywhere, people choking to death.. When would you ever have the thought or inclination to shoot or stab your child to death in those circumstances? Really think about that and what kind of sick, deranged mind would go there..
Posted on 4/28/20 at 9:21 am to brmark70816
quote:
I really want you to think about what you are saying or implying. The building is coming down on top of them, there are flames everywhere, people choking to death.. When would you ever have the thought or inclination to shoot or stab your child to death in those circumstances? Really think about that and what kind of sick, deranged mind would go there..
So this is where you go after you find out you were wrong?
These people weren't normal people. They thought the people outside were there to end them. So they were stuck in a building assured death watching their family suffer and die, they have something they can do to end the suffering. The stabbing is an interesting case, there just isn't enough info out there publicly for me to really weigh in on this one beyond what we know from known documents and testimony. We know the autopsy showed it was some kind of penetration wound that killed the kid, but the kid was also in at least two pieces. What caused the kid to be ripped apart like that? I doubt it was someone with a knife. In the end, there was only 5 kids shot. It wasn't even a majority or close to it for the families that chose this route.
Let's also think of a real world event where this type of thinking could of played out. 9/11, the jumpers were faced with this same choice of burn alive, smoke inhalation, or take another way out. What's your thoughts on them?
It's the governments responsibility to find a way to end the crisis in a safe manner. They didn't do that here, they know they didn't do that here. The head of the HRT and the local FBI field ops command guy were both told it would be a good idea to retire. They revamped how much power the negotiations team has in the FBI. The entire government knows it fricked up hard here, there is no point to even argue they did a good job. The ATF just straight up lied on just about everything involved in their raid and that has been proven in court. This left a huge black eye for the government.
This post was edited on 4/28/20 at 9:32 am
Posted on 4/28/20 at 12:36 pm to TigerNlc
quote:
Actually all 4 of the agents that were killed in Waco were former bodyguards of Bill Clinton.
Hmmm...
Are you implying that they were killed by friendly fire because of the Clintons?
Haha.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 1:00 pm to tigerinthebueche
quote:
You must be livid that Jeffery Dhamer got the needle.
Ah, yes, that time Jeffery Dhamer was beaten to death by Christopher "The Needle" Scarver.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 4:06 pm to brmark70816
quote:
The children were not burned alive
The FBI and DOJ disagree with you, they've acknowledged that the vast majority died due to smoke inhalation and suffocation and their bodies were burned to a crisp, pretty much the fricking definition of being burned alive
Posted on 4/28/20 at 4:09 pm to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
Actually all 4 of the agents that were killed in Waco were former bodyguards of Bill Clinton.
Hmmm...
Are you implying that they were killed by friendly fire because of the Clintons?
Haha.
Them Clintons put up real numbers cher
Posted on 4/28/20 at 6:20 pm to brmark70816
How do we know Koresh had improvised explosives and poisonous gas? That was never determined or proved.
As to the altered weapons what harm were they presenting? Neighbors in the area said they bothered no one.
The government went in at full assault mode.
As to the altered weapons what harm were they presenting? Neighbors in the area said they bothered no one.
The government went in at full assault mode.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 7:14 pm to WhiskerBiscuitSlayer
That was a state matter. It really had nothing to do with ATF or the FBI
Koresh was a whack job. He was a manipulative monster. That being said, Koresh should have been served papers and had a proper warrant and investigation.
But the gubmint wanted to make a statement. No Whackos in Waco.
Koresh was a whack job. He was a manipulative monster. That being said, Koresh should have been served papers and had a proper warrant and investigation.
But the gubmint wanted to make a statement. No Whackos in Waco.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 7:52 pm to KiwiHead
Holy shite! Taylor Kitch of Friday Night Lights playing Koresh. Ahahahahhha
Posted on 4/28/20 at 8:25 pm to Ollieoxenfree99
That’s John Carter to you motherfricker 
Also would like to say that this has been a hell of a thread full of some solid information on both sides of the issue.
And also frick the FBI, ATF, and all other 3 letter government agencies.
Also would like to say that this has been a hell of a thread full of some solid information on both sides of the issue.
And also frick the FBI, ATF, and all other 3 letter government agencies.
Posted on 4/29/20 at 2:11 am to KiwiHead
Its circular logic and the points all contradict themselves.
"They are not a threat and were not stockpiling weapons". They were obviously heavily armed and were modifying weapons. They defeated the assault soundly. As a weapons dealer they were subject to direct inquiries by the ATF. The warrants have never been shown to be unjust or speculation.
"They were peaceful". They were prepared to fight to the death. They ignored a court order and opened fire. They openly attacked US agents. The ATF had the legal right to go in and be there.
"The community liked them". Then why were they investigated so many times. Why did local law enforcement track them so closely. Why were there numerous articles depicting them as loons and calling for the government to step in, state or federal.
"The government killed them". They went to war with the government. They boxed themselves in and wished for death. Then many commited suicide. They forced a resolution.
Of course the agencies f'd up. Its all recorded and they took huge black eyes. Tactics have been changed and corrected as a result. They could have and should have done many things differently. But the BDs were evil and committing evil acts. Something had to be done. Them dying and the agencies messing up doesn't exonerate them at all..
"They are not a threat and were not stockpiling weapons". They were obviously heavily armed and were modifying weapons. They defeated the assault soundly. As a weapons dealer they were subject to direct inquiries by the ATF. The warrants have never been shown to be unjust or speculation.
"They were peaceful". They were prepared to fight to the death. They ignored a court order and opened fire. They openly attacked US agents. The ATF had the legal right to go in and be there.
"The community liked them". Then why were they investigated so many times. Why did local law enforcement track them so closely. Why were there numerous articles depicting them as loons and calling for the government to step in, state or federal.
"The government killed them". They went to war with the government. They boxed themselves in and wished for death. Then many commited suicide. They forced a resolution.
Of course the agencies f'd up. Its all recorded and they took huge black eyes. Tactics have been changed and corrected as a result. They could have and should have done many things differently. But the BDs were evil and committing evil acts. Something had to be done. Them dying and the agencies messing up doesn't exonerate them at all..
Posted on 4/29/20 at 8:39 am to brmark70816
quote:
They were obviously heavily armed and were modifying weapons. They defeated the assault soundly. As a weapons dealer they were subject to direct inquiries by the ATF. The warrants have never been shown to be unjust or speculation.
The warrants were written as a knock warrant first. They didn't do that. They planned to immediately shoot the dogs and started the assault. They didn't have a no knock assault warrant.
quote:
"They were peaceful". They were prepared to fight to the death. They ignored a court order and opened fire. They openly attacked US agents. The ATF had the legal right to go in and be there.
Never said they were peaceful, they were clearly a defensive end of the world cult. They didn't ignore a court order and it is unclear who actually opened fire first. This has never been figured out on either side. All we know is the dog team was told to kill the dogs immediately and could of started either side firing first. The ATF also didn't have permission to immediately start the raid.
quote:
"The community liked them". Then why were they investigated so many times. Why did local law enforcement track them so closely. Why were there numerous articles depicting them as loons and calling for the government to step in, state or federal.
The community in Waco at the time was different. There was and may still be a decent population of Davidians in Waco proper. This is different than the Branch Davidians at the compound as the name implies they branched off. Davidians themselves are a branch from Seventh Day Adventists. There are also a lot of people in Waco not associated with either group. Plus the compound wasn't in Waco proper but miles outside the city. The local sheriff to them was friendly with them and had no issues with approaching them, this is why the ATF left the locals in the cold about the investigation and raid. The newspaper in Waco proper that wasn't associated with the religious groups in the area however wasn't as friendly and neither was the state CPS. The relationships here are complex.
quote:
"The government killed them". They went to war with the government. They boxed themselves in and wished for death. Then many commited suicide. They forced a resolution.
Of course the agencies f'd up. Its all recorded and they took huge black eyes. Tactics have been changed and corrected as a result. They could have and should have done many things differently. But the BDs were evil and committing evil acts. Something had to be done. Them dying and the agencies messing up doesn't exonerate them at all..
The last section is what we have been saying all along. We aren't exonerating what the BDs did, we want to hold the government accountable for what they did. The BDs are dead and gone, nothing we can do about that. Our gigantic fooked up government is still here, it needs to be held accountable.
Posted on 4/29/20 at 9:56 am to Dam Guide
I don't have much to add on this. The Ruby Ridge thing pissed me off more than the BD.
But I WILL say that Michael Shannon is a bad man. I could watch him read a phone book. If you want to see him at his best, check out "Nocturnal Animals"
But I WILL say that Michael Shannon is a bad man. I could watch him read a phone book. If you want to see him at his best, check out "Nocturnal Animals"
Posted on 4/29/20 at 1:10 pm to YNWA
quote:
Same people bitching about WACO/FBI/ATF have no problem with ICE housing immigrant children in cages. ICE is seen as MAGA and FBI is seen as bad because Trump is scared to of them and the dirt he knows they have on him. Trump cult and Koresh cult. A cults a cult. Both are brainwashed and follow a false god. Both would die for their leader and believe every word that they say. Not to mention both leaders raped underage children.
You are mentally ill. Seek help.
Page 9 of 10
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News