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Message
re: True Detective S1E4 "Who Goes There"
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:42 pm to JBeam
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:42 pm to JBeam
quote:
Read more of the Grantland article when you get a chance. It turns political [Saying that the women in this show have no depth or control over situations in their lives].
I did read it - I typically agree with Greenwald's thoughts (on Homeland, especially), but I'm never in universal accord.
I don't think his assessment of females on the show is crazy - they are nothing characters with little to no depth. Michelle Monaghan is kind of wasted on the show. It's not a big deal or anything (or even a criticism).
The show is not something overly-deep and transcendent, but highly-entertaining. MM is carrying the show.
I especially agreed with his assessment on Dora Lange - the first several eps were about exploring who she is but now she's almost forgotten. She has been turned into a "nothing" as well
1
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:42 pm to Billy Mays
quote:
And if we are going to spend multiple episodes (and injecting this silly biker gang into the mix) trying to find Reggie Ledoux it might be a complete waste considering nobody actually believe he's the mastermind behind the murders.
Uh both Rust and Marty at this point in the 95 timeline believe Reggie is the killer. You can't just skip all this because the audience knows that likely isn't the case.
I mean that's what the whole show is about man.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:48 pm to LSUSilverfox
quote:
Marty gets fed up, que fall out.
I wonder if they really had a falling out or if that is some BS they are feeding Gilbough and Papania. Hart and Cohle are becoming closer and closer in 95. They are covering for each other after 17 years. And after last night's episode it is obvious that Cohle has no limits to what he's willing to do for the job. I wouldn't be surprised to see that Cohle went off the grid in 2002 b/c he went undercover for this case. Hart could still be covering for him.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:48 pm to PhiTiger1764
They are still undercover, and the "fallout" is fake.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:49 pm to Billy Mays
quote:I have to respectfully disagree. Maggie is a character that shows depth and concern for Marty & Rust. Also you have to remember what time period & where you are located. It's '95, in south Louisiana. The women in this universe aren't supposed to be polished. They aren't supposed to fit the cookie cutter look that a network show would have to cast them in.
I don't think his assessment of females on the show is crazy - they are nothing characters with little to no depth. Michelle Monaghan is kind of wasted on the show. It's not a big deal or anything (or even a criticism).
Also, one of the key moments a female actually flexes her muscle in this show is when the Madam at the bunny ranch tells Marty off.
quote:I tend to believe that she is a piece of a larger puzzle. Dora Lange has led us to important points in this show.
I especially agreed with his assessment on Dora Lange - the first several eps were about exploring who she is but now she's almost forgotten. She has been turned into a "nothing" as well
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:49 pm to Itismemc
quote:
they are still undercover the fallout is fake
for 10 years?
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:51 pm to Itismemc
quote:Marty runs a private security firm. I highly doubt they are still undercover.
They are still undercover
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:59 pm to JBeam
so we know this. Charlie Lange, Dora Lange, REggie Ledoux and Rianne Olivier are all connected to each other. One a suspect, two murder victims and the other still in jail with some vague knowledge of what is going on…just how much he really knows is still not clear. We also know Marty and Rust carry some kids out of the woods during their raid of the Ledoux compound (another poster posted a picture of it earlier)…so Ledoux is at least highly involved in the crimes. Exactly what his involvement is is still not clear…WE know he is a "chemist" who can make all kind of stuff…we know he has a symbols (the spiral) which both victims also had….
If what Charlie said is true and their is some cult of rich devil worshippers it could be that he drugs these people including the women and kids with whatever evil concoction he's making to the point where they become wiling participants in the rituals allowing themselves to be killed, or unable to distinguish the reality of their plight, who knows for sure but there are more people involved in this that Just Ledoux and I think 7 and 8 will be focused on that.
If what Charlie said is true and their is some cult of rich devil worshippers it could be that he drugs these people including the women and kids with whatever evil concoction he's making to the point where they become wiling participants in the rituals allowing themselves to be killed, or unable to distinguish the reality of their plight, who knows for sure but there are more people involved in this that Just Ledoux and I think 7 and 8 will be focused on that.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 2:59 pm to ashy larry
quote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see that Cohle went off the grid in 2002 b/c he went undercover for this case. Hart could still be covering for him.
Rust is in so deep that he is now part of the cult. He did murder the woman in 2012 but it is all a ploy to bring down the Yellow King and company.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 3:02 pm to ashy larry
quote:
went off the grid in 2002 b/c he went undercover for this case.
If we are throwing out possible scenarios, I'd be more inclined towards some type of witness protection rather than being undercover for the case.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 3:02 pm to LSUSilverfox
doesn't sound plausible.
I think the cops know his history of killing perps int eh past in his undercover days..It may be that in their raid of Ledoux's place, they actually kill him…when a new murder surfaces 17 years later, they black detectives are going back to see where the original detectives may have missed something..they may find the connection to the iron crusaders with Rust and think maybe he was using the case to settle a personal vendetta, hence killing Reggie.
I think it would be silly if they really think Rust was the killer.
I think the cops know his history of killing perps int eh past in his undercover days..It may be that in their raid of Ledoux's place, they actually kill him…when a new murder surfaces 17 years later, they black detectives are going back to see where the original detectives may have missed something..they may find the connection to the iron crusaders with Rust and think maybe he was using the case to settle a personal vendetta, hence killing Reggie.
I think it would be silly if they really think Rust was the killer.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 4:38 pm to Tiger Ryno
Greenwald is just being stubborn. He didn't get what the show was trying to do when he first reviewed it and even now that almost all of his criticisms have been met and answered he refuses to admit he was wrong.
I also don't understand people who complain about scenes like the last one being "too improbably." Jesus Christ we're talking about movies and tv shows, go watch Revolutionary Road if you want something realistic. 99% of real life is predictable and boring, to make something entertaining by definition it almost has to be improbable. Because everything Walter White did was totally plausible and likely. The show does more than enough to address how the raid was possible, stop being fricking fact checkers and just enjoy it
I also don't understand people who complain about scenes like the last one being "too improbably." Jesus Christ we're talking about movies and tv shows, go watch Revolutionary Road if you want something realistic. 99% of real life is predictable and boring, to make something entertaining by definition it almost has to be improbable. Because everything Walter White did was totally plausible and likely. The show does more than enough to address how the raid was possible, stop being fricking fact checkers and just enjoy it
Posted on 2/10/14 at 4:40 pm to tigerfan88
+1
Posted on 2/10/14 at 4:59 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:
Uh both Rust and Marty at this point in the 95 timeline believe Reggie is the killer. You can't just skip all this because the audience knows that likely isn't the case.
I mean that's what the whole show is about man.
At the this point we don't know that they think Ledoux is the killer (that hasn't been said unless I missed something) - they are following a lead.
It is reasonable to assume the writers are presenting Ledoux as the guy who is fingered for the crimes in '95. In next week's preview, you could led to believe to Rusty himself is killer, based on him walking out of the interrogation room, so I'll be glad the are at giving the audience another avenue to think about other than Reggie.
The biker gang was just a tool to revisit Rusty's crazy undercover past and somehow connect it to Ledoux's cold trail- it seemed kinda forced and silly. The 2nd half of the episode I couldn't help but chortle how over-the-top it was. It was shot really well tho and fun to watch
This post was edited on 2/10/14 at 5:00 pm
Posted on 2/10/14 at 5:08 pm to Billy Mays
I actually agree with a lot of the Grantland article. I do think this show is very good and is amazing in parts. My main issue with last night's episode was how quickly these two so called "detectives" completely went rogue. The whole entire scheme just to find one man who might be the serial killer, while very entertaining, seems over the top to me. But hey, that's art.
This post was edited on 2/10/14 at 5:10 pm
Posted on 2/10/14 at 5:12 pm to Billy Mays
even if the undercover scene was "forced" and "silly" (I disagree) I absolutely loved it. Not many shows/movies have ever had on the edge of my seat like that. Maybe people don't understand that basically everyone in the scene was high as shite on something and when people are high as shite they do things that dont make sense
Posted on 2/10/14 at 5:16 pm to DallasTiger11
But why is being improbable a criticism? Please name one great show where everything that happens is totally believable and there are no coincidences and all of the characters act completely rationally.
Not to mention TD has actually laid the groundwork to establish both of these characters would 100% do something like this. Rust is an addict, he has to throw himself into whatever he's doing to distract himself from what he sees as the meaninglessness of life. Not to mention the system basically fricked him and made him go rogue for 4 years so he's pretty accustomed to that brand of police work. Marty seemed stable at first but his life is crumbling before our eyes, and we've seen he's even more of a loose cannon that Rust. Hes also clinging to this case like a life raft in a storm. They'd both do anything to keep it going and not have to look at their personal lives
Not to mention TD has actually laid the groundwork to establish both of these characters would 100% do something like this. Rust is an addict, he has to throw himself into whatever he's doing to distract himself from what he sees as the meaninglessness of life. Not to mention the system basically fricked him and made him go rogue for 4 years so he's pretty accustomed to that brand of police work. Marty seemed stable at first but his life is crumbling before our eyes, and we've seen he's even more of a loose cannon that Rust. Hes also clinging to this case like a life raft in a storm. They'd both do anything to keep it going and not have to look at their personal lives
This post was edited on 2/10/14 at 5:17 pm
Posted on 2/10/14 at 5:25 pm to tigerfan88
You make some great points, but levels of plausibility are always a criticism of film and television. I think it is believable within their characters (particularly Rust), but I think some other options should have been discussed first before plunging head first into the most extreme one. (The end result of the episode could have been achieved in one of many other easier methods.)
The thing that saved it for me was that Marty was not exactly in a coherent state of mind for most of the episode, so normally I think he would have reservations with the whole plan but it fits in with his hot headedness.
I'm not saying it was bad at all, I just think they could have at least discussed or attempted another way to achieve their objective before picking that one. It's almost as if Pizzalotto wanted to show Rust diving back undercover so he left out some logic that police officers should certainly have. It's a minor criticism, but one worth a note IMO.
The thing that saved it for me was that Marty was not exactly in a coherent state of mind for most of the episode, so normally I think he would have reservations with the whole plan but it fits in with his hot headedness.
I'm not saying it was bad at all, I just think they could have at least discussed or attempted another way to achieve their objective before picking that one. It's almost as if Pizzalotto wanted to show Rust diving back undercover so he left out some logic that police officers should certainly have. It's a minor criticism, but one worth a note IMO.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 5:26 pm to tigerfan88
quote:
Not to mention TD has actually laid the groundwork to establish both of these characters would 100% do something like this.
Rust was an experienced ripper and he must have been somewhat familiar with the area from his time undercover (thus able to tell Marty an intersection to meet him at). Yes, luck played a part but Rust minimized his risks with evasive techniques. It's not that unbelievable.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 5:27 pm to tigerfan88
Do big cities commonly have helicopters keeping a watch a ghettos?
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