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Message
re: tOfficial Better Call Saul Season 6 Episode 1 and 2 Thread (Page 15/16 spoil zone)
Posted on 4/13/22 at 11:51 am to LasVegasTiger
Posted on 4/13/22 at 11:51 am to LasVegasTiger
I'm also rewatching S5 to get caught up, I've only got the s5 finale left which I'll knock out tonight.
The end of S5E9 was the tense scene in the apt with lalo, kim, and saul. In the moment it was of course super badass and one of the things people remember most from S5. But watching it in a binge setting wheere I'm watching an episode or 2 per night instead of having to wait a week in between, it just seemed...a little far fetched, I guess? Vince rarely ever misses the mark but this scenario just seemed SO unlikely based on what we know about lalo up to that point in time.
-he is reckless, as evidenced by him coming north to america in the first place and trying to frick with gus's operation
-he flat out murders an innocent civilian at the travel wire in broad daylight. He's clearly a loose cannon with no regard for innocent life or who may be around to witness his crimes
-when the police originally pull him over after the tips from mike, he reaches under his seat for his gun. He at least is considering a shootout with the cops. It's only when 3 or 4 more roll up he realizes that would be a losing effort
-when kim visits lalo in jail he seems to be maybe slightly impressed by her but doens't give her info on saul's whereabouts and seems kind of tired of her pretty quickly. Basically he doens't feel like sharing anything with her and doesn't seem to "like" her too much
So now we get to the apartment scene. He has a gun and has caught saul in multiple lies, first about pushing his car into the ditch and second about there being a shootout. So finally in the big climax kim berates him with an arugment that's basically "hey dumbass! He's a great lawyer and would never lie to you! He alwasy tells the truth! Some kids probably just shot the car, ya ever think of that! Geez wtf is wrong with you!!??!" nevermind that we've spent the last 2 episodes pointing out exactly how remote this lcoation was so random youths out there is unlikely. Lalo's reaction is to just stand quietly and absord this, then walk out meekly with his tail between his legs.
I get that the scene is all about Kim and supposed to make us see how big of a badass she is, and how much she has sauls back. But based on what we know of lalo that is just SUCH an uncharacteristic reaciton. I'm not saying he would have killed tyhem, but I mean he would at least say SOMETHING. Even just a "don't talk to me like that again or else". Just seemed very strange.
The end of S5E9 was the tense scene in the apt with lalo, kim, and saul. In the moment it was of course super badass and one of the things people remember most from S5. But watching it in a binge setting wheere I'm watching an episode or 2 per night instead of having to wait a week in between, it just seemed...a little far fetched, I guess? Vince rarely ever misses the mark but this scenario just seemed SO unlikely based on what we know about lalo up to that point in time.
-he is reckless, as evidenced by him coming north to america in the first place and trying to frick with gus's operation
-he flat out murders an innocent civilian at the travel wire in broad daylight. He's clearly a loose cannon with no regard for innocent life or who may be around to witness his crimes
-when the police originally pull him over after the tips from mike, he reaches under his seat for his gun. He at least is considering a shootout with the cops. It's only when 3 or 4 more roll up he realizes that would be a losing effort
-when kim visits lalo in jail he seems to be maybe slightly impressed by her but doens't give her info on saul's whereabouts and seems kind of tired of her pretty quickly. Basically he doens't feel like sharing anything with her and doesn't seem to "like" her too much
So now we get to the apartment scene. He has a gun and has caught saul in multiple lies, first about pushing his car into the ditch and second about there being a shootout. So finally in the big climax kim berates him with an arugment that's basically "hey dumbass! He's a great lawyer and would never lie to you! He alwasy tells the truth! Some kids probably just shot the car, ya ever think of that! Geez wtf is wrong with you!!??!" nevermind that we've spent the last 2 episodes pointing out exactly how remote this lcoation was so random youths out there is unlikely. Lalo's reaction is to just stand quietly and absord this, then walk out meekly with his tail between his legs.
I get that the scene is all about Kim and supposed to make us see how big of a badass she is, and how much she has sauls back. But based on what we know of lalo that is just SUCH an uncharacteristic reaciton. I'm not saying he would have killed tyhem, but I mean he would at least say SOMETHING. Even just a "don't talk to me like that again or else". Just seemed very strange.
2
Posted on 4/13/22 at 12:09 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
So now we get to the apartment scene. He has a gun and has caught saul in multiple lies, first about pushing his car into the ditch and second about there being a shootout. So finally in the big climax kim berates him with an arugment that's basically "hey dumbass! He's a great lawyer and would never lie to you! He alwasy tells the truth! Some kids probably just shot the car, ya ever think of that! Geez wtf is wrong with you!!??!" nevermind that we've spent the last 2 episodes pointing out exactly how remote this lcoation was so random youths out there is unlikely. Lalo's reaction is to just stand quietly and absord this, then walk out meekly with his tail between his legs.
you missed the main point of that interaction. her most convincing point was lalo needs to get his own house in order. He has bigger problems if his own cartel guys were trying to hijack his bail money. Money that saul went above and beyond to make sure he received, Saul did remain loyal even if there was some lying about how. lalo has bigger problems if the only person he could trust in the first place was saul. he was already suspecting he had in-house problems and kim honed in and highlighted that for him. how obvious are the problems in his house if kim just has spent a total of 10 minutes with him at this point and can see it plain as day?
he didnt turn tail and run, he realized she was very correct. Saul was more reliable than his own people so he took kim's advice...thats why in the very next episode he is taking nacho in to get a promotion, he believes nacho is someone he can trust so he can build upon that with the reward of promotion.
This post was edited on 4/13/22 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 4/13/22 at 1:07 pm to WG_Dawg
I feel like i did not watch the same episode that you and AMS did.
Hector was out of commission and Tuco was in prison. They needed some leadership.
Yes. He places little to no value on human life. You can see this in the courtroom when he looks at the victim's family with mild curiosity only.
Was he caught in multiple lies? He said the car broke down. Kim said someone shot it up. There were roads out there so people used that area and signs etc being shot up in the country is very common. I think it was Kim getting so mad and upset that convinced him that Saul and she were right. He is not going to kill them because they are an asset of the cartel at that point.
quote:
-he is reckless, as evidenced by him coming north to america in the first place and trying to frick with gus's operation
Hector was out of commission and Tuco was in prison. They needed some leadership.
quote:
-he flat out murders an innocent civilian at the travel wire in broad daylight. He's clearly a loose cannon with no regard for innocent life or who may be around to witness his crimes
-when the police originally pull him over after the tips from mike, he reaches under his seat for his gun. He at least is considering a shootout with the cops. It's only when 3 or 4 more roll up he realizes that would be a losing effort
Yes. He places little to no value on human life. You can see this in the courtroom when he looks at the victim's family with mild curiosity only.
quote:
He has a gun and has caught saul in multiple lies, first about pushing his car into the ditch and second about there being a shootout. So finally in the big climax kim berates him with an arugment that's basically "hey dumbass! He's a great lawyer and would never lie to you! He alwasy tells the truth! Some kids probably just shot the car, ya ever think of that!
Was he caught in multiple lies? He said the car broke down. Kim said someone shot it up. There were roads out there so people used that area and signs etc being shot up in the country is very common. I think it was Kim getting so mad and upset that convinced him that Saul and she were right. He is not going to kill them because they are an asset of the cartel at that point.
Posted on 4/13/22 at 1:10 pm to AMS
quote:
you missed the main point of that interaction. her most convincing point was lalo needs to get his own house in order. He has bigger problems if his own cartel guys were trying to hijack his bail money. Money that saul went above and beyond to make sure he received, Saul did remain loyal even if there was some lying about how. lalo has bigger problems if the only person he could trust in the first place was saul. he was already suspecting he had in-house problems and kim honed in and highlighted that for him. how obvious are the problems in his house if kim just has spent a total of 10 minutes with him at this point and can see it plain as day?
he didnt turn tail and run, he realized she was very correct.
Oh I fully agree that she was right and he knew it, not disputing that at all. I just thought it was sliiightly unrealistic that she would give a complete undressing of a cartel member, a hot-headed Salamanca at that, and his only reaction would be "wow I never looked at it in that light before but you're right. Thanks for the sage business advice". Even if he completely had a light bulb moment and knew beyond doubt she was 100% correct, it just seems he would have SOME reaction other than just quietly walking out into the night.
Posted on 4/13/22 at 1:13 pm to rebelrouser
quote:
Was he caught in multiple lies
yeah. Saul's rehearsed story was that he got the money without incident, drove back 6 or 7 miles, his car broke down, so he walked the rest of the way. Lalo on his own discovered that the car was face down in a ditch and based on the tire marks was rolled there intentionally, and there were bullet holes in it. You can call it a lie of omission I suppose but that's why he kept telling Saul, I think it may ahve been 3 or 4 times, to tell him the story again. Because he knew taht Saul wasn't being completely honest. If the guy you sent to pick up your millions gets his car shot up and doesn't come up for 2 days and doesn't mention a word abotu it to you, you're obviously going to be curious on wtf is really happening. Or happened.
Posted on 4/13/22 at 1:26 pm to rebelrouser
Who does Mike kill?
Posted on 4/13/22 at 1:27 pm to hogcard1964
quote:
Who does Mike kill?
Whoever he wants.
Posted on 4/13/22 at 1:28 pm to hogcard1964
Mike probably kills nacho.
It makes sense in this depressing arse show that he will have to kill another person that he has empathy for.
It makes sense in this depressing arse show that he will have to kill another person that he has empathy for.
This post was edited on 4/13/22 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 4/13/22 at 2:07 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
Oh I fully agree that she was right and he knew it, not disputing that at all. I just thought it was sliiightly unrealistic that she would give a complete undressing of a cartel member, a hot-headed Salamanca at that, and his only reaction would be "wow I never looked at it in that light before but you're right. Thanks for the sage business advice". Even if he completely had a light bulb moment and knew beyond doubt she was 100% correct, it just seems he would have SOME reaction other than just quietly walking out into the night.
his move to confront them was out of his own growing paranoia that the people around him were not being trustworthy. He went there to intimidate them and try to get more insight to what happened. If the lawyers would give up some conspiracy against him then he would've acted differently. He was satisfied the lawyers were not the problem.
so knowing the lawyers weren't the problem what was he gonna do? kill them? Throw a temper tantrum and kill the goldfish because kim was correct? No, his business there was done and he confirmed his suspicion that he had rats in-house. So he left to go sort out his own house. What else did he have to say?
and kim didnt give him a undressing on an insulting personal level, it was matter of fact business oriented. it was all what he was suspecting to begin with. it even hinted they remained trustworthy and useful for future cartel business. She stands up for the little guy and isnt afraid to be outwardly adversarial to prosecutors, her bosses, etc.
I think this is very in line for her character as she is growing more bold and fearless in her lawyering. which is what is going to get her into some type of trouble and will be used to explain why she isn't around in BB.
Posted on 4/13/22 at 2:29 pm to Displaced
quote:
Mike probably kills nacho.
I think if he does die, it will be by someone you wouldn’t expect (like Krazy 8).
Posted on 4/13/22 at 2:30 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
yeah. Saul's rehearsed story was that he got the money without incident, drove back 6 or 7 miles, his car broke down, so he walked the rest of the way. Lalo on his own discovered that the car was face down in a ditch and based on the tire marks was rolled there intentionally, and there were bullet holes in it. You can call it a lie of omission I suppose but that's why he kept telling Saul, I think it may ahve been 3 or 4 times, to tell him the story again. Because he knew taht Saul wasn't being completely honest. If the guy you sent to pick up your millions gets his car shot up and doesn't come up for 2 days and doesn't mention a word abotu it to you, you're obviously going to be curious on wtf is really happening. Or happened.
kim gave him a plausible explanation for the car that plausibly jived with the story. randoms rolled and shot the car for shits and giggles. How would Saul be aware of what happened to his car after abandoning it?
lalo was using a common police tactic asking to repeat the story multiple times. make them keep repeating the story for any holes or changes and eventually they may incriminate themselves. kim, being a great lawyer, realized this and jumped on it. If he had a concrete knowledge they were maliciously lying he would have said so or would have already killed them instead of using interrogation tactics.
Posted on 4/13/22 at 2:31 pm to dawgdayafternoon
Posted on 4/13/22 at 2:40 pm to Displaced
quote:
Mike probably kills nacho.
It makes sense in this depressing arse show that he will have to kill another person that he has empathy for.
why would mike kill nacho? nacho has only been very useful for gus and will remain loyal as his family is in danger.
lalo on the other hand knows nacho betrayed him. he walked through and saw everyones dead bodies, noticing nacho is not among them and the glasses they were just drinking next to the open gate nearby. lalo has the advantage of surprise over nacho, who probably thinks the hit was successful.
nacho is either killed by the cartel for betrayal or would be a great way to introduce Ed the hoover disappearer guy as a reward for his effort.
Posted on 4/13/22 at 2:52 pm to rebelrouser
quote:
I feel like i did not watch the same episode that you and AMS did.
I felt like I didn't watch the same episode as WG
what did you notice differently?
quote:
Was he caught in multiple lies? He said the car broke down. Kim said someone shot it up. There were roads out there so people used that area and signs etc being shot up in the country is very common. I think it was Kim getting so mad and upset that convinced him that Saul and she were right. He is not going to kill them because they are an asset of the cartel at that point.
I agree with most of your post including the fact that lalo didnt necessarily catch saul in any lie although he may be suspicious. the car being shot up by randos is plausible. I do think what was more convincing than the plausible explanation was that they upheld their end of the bargain and would still be valuable for the cartel. lalo's problem was mainly getting his own house in order. lalo already suspected in-house problems bc he had to rely on saul to move the money instead of his own men.
Posted on 4/13/22 at 3:24 pm to AMS
Season 5 recap (15 mins)
For those who won’t be able to rewatch the whole season prior to Monday night.
For those who won’t be able to rewatch the whole season prior to Monday night.
This post was edited on 4/13/22 at 3:24 pm
Posted on 4/13/22 at 3:37 pm to AMS
quote:
why would mike kill nacho? nacho has only been very useful for gus and will remain loyal as his family is in danger.
Probably gets fed up with it all if Lalo dies first.
He tells Gus he has done his job and wants to be done with the game.
Gus, following his line in S5 about a dog that has bitten in the past, decides to have him put down.
Just speculation though.
This post was edited on 4/13/22 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 4/13/22 at 4:04 pm to Displaced
quote:
Probably gets fed up with it all if Lalo dies first.
He tells Gus he has done his job and wants to be done with the game.
Gus, following his line in S5 about a dog that has bitten in the past, decides to have him put down.
Just speculation though.
I believe this was the quote:
quote:
A dog who bites every owner he’s had can only be disciplined with a firm hand. Or put down
yea thats good speculation, it was even in reference to nacho. but after that it was nachos discipline that he had to betray lalo or his family be killed. mike might be forced to kill nacho but Id think nacho would have to trespass gus again in some way to be put down. otherwise gus would have ordered mike to kill nacho during that conversation if he intended to do so at that point. thats all still possible. maybe gus orders it because the hit failed and he cannot have nacho giving up that secret to lalo. but none of that means mike has to do it, gus likely has other rival cartel hitmen which would make it look like they were covering up their tracks for the hit on lalo in the first place
but i think lalo/cartel have even better claim to put him down, have the element of surprise, and hunger for vengeance.
i do suppose mike is more of an option than initially I suspected
Posted on 4/13/22 at 4:14 pm to AMS
quote:
but none of that means mike has to do it
Sure. Just more speculation as Mike's story is the tragedy in the series. Always loss and death doing things he hates because he is a loyal professional.
Him growing fond of nacho makes him more the obvious choice imo.
Posted on 4/13/22 at 4:26 pm to Displaced
quote:
Just more speculation as Mike's story is the tragedy in the series.
everyone's story is tragedy in BCS and BB.
quote:
Him growing fond of nacho makes him more the obvious choice imo.
I am now seeing that as a viable option, but I think lalo has a more obvious reason for killing him, due to the betrayal. i just think lalo would have to be skipped over
Nacho's tragedy is that no matter what he does either him or his family will be killed. he acquiesced to the demands of gus for his families safety, but that may cause lalo/the cartel to kill him and potentially his family anyway. both sides are using him as a pawn and he will be sacrificed as a pawn.
goddamn this BB/BCS universe is so good. since BB already happened we know what some outcomes will be, but there is still room for those things to occur in wildly different ways.
Posted on 4/13/22 at 4:45 pm to AMS
quote:
everyone's story is tragedy in BCS and BB.
That's fair
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