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re: The Gilded Age • HBO • Julian Fellowes
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:14 am to LaLadyinTx
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:14 am to LaLadyinTx
quote:
It rubs your nose in rudimentary wokeness like you're a 3rd grader.
Still going to watch. I like the railroad baron.
quote:Then you didn't watch Downton Abbey. Because they had a major "racism" arc, complete with a black man at Downton, pearls clutched, interracial romance, and the usual threats and thick moral ending to the chapter. Don't even get me started on the death of the "foreigner" Turk that was the dark cloud that hovered over the entire series (how could Lady Mary debase herself like that?).
True. It's the difference between making any show today compared to 2010-2015, when Downton Abbey was made.
The Gilded Age "rubs your nose" in everything. Every character is a broad soap opera cartoon (which is why it's so entertaining). The snobs, the devious lady's maid and the predatory suitor, the staff with ridiculously dark secrets. They rub your nose into everything. You people are picking out the parts that offend you and pretending that the rest of the show is some realistic play with subtly nuanced characters.
1
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:21 am to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Because they had a major "racism" arc, complete with a black man at Downton, pearls clutched, interracial romance, and the usual threats and thick moral ending to the chapter. Don't even get me started on the death of the "foreigner" Turk that was the dark cloud that hovered over the entire series (how could Lady Mary debase herself like that?).
I watched every single episode of Downton Abbey. I think the difference in the way shows introduce things then/now is that now, it's like every show has to check every box from the beginning...Gay character, check. Black storyline, check. 5-10 years ago, those things weren't immediately introduced to the show every time. Instead, they were introduced over time as a more natural part of the storyline.
And you are fussing at the wrong person. I haven't been the least been offended by a single thing in this show. I like it a lot. I am simply recognizing the differences between producing shows for today compared to 10 years ago. I am doing NONE of those things you mentioned in the last paragraph.
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:23 am to lionward2014
quote:
It rubs your nose in rudimentary wokeness like you're a 3rd grader.
quote:
True.
Genuinely curious what has been "woke" about the show so far? Maybe something with Peggy's storyline but couldn't imagine a black, female writer in 1882 had the easiest time being hired.
Just that every single box has to be checked now. It doesn't bother me and I don't notice it till pointed out. But it is true about almost all shows currently being produced.
BTW, I think Peggy (Miss Scott, I barely knew her name was Peggy) is my favorite character.
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:34 am to lionward2014
quote:
Genuinely curious what has been "woke" about the show so far? Maybe something with Peggy's storyline but couldn't imagine a black, female writer in 1882 had the easiest time being hired.
It would bother me if it was disingenuous but Fellowes does a brilliant job of weaving in real life experience in his fictional tapestry. Ida B. Wells was a Black, female writer at around the same time that had similar difficulties in getting published (well before she helped create the NAACP). Her newspaper office in Memphis was destroyed as a result.
Much like the other characters on the show (particularly the Van Ryans and Russell’s) it’s fully based in legitimate history occurring at that time.
This post was edited on 2/23/22 at 9:39 am
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:39 am to LaLadyinTx
quote:What boxes are checked? The gay character is a devious almost-villain. Half of the black characters are shown in a bad light. It's not like we're seeing black Vikings and transgender members of the Mercury 7 here.
Just that every single box has to be checked now.
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:49 am to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
What boxes are checked? The gay character is a devious almost-villain. Half of the black characters are shown in a bad light. It's not like we're seeing black Vikings and transgender members of the Mercury 7 here.
I hate that a woke argument was even brought up, because even if there is a gripe, it's not much. But it's to be expected in every thread on here now. But I do think the gay secret lover thing was checking something off the list to make sure that was covered. I don't care, but it's a bit lazy writing just to appease a certain group.
Posted on 2/23/22 at 10:02 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:Having a gay villain isn't appeasing any group. It's the opposite of checking a pro-gay box.
it's a bit lazy writing just to appease a certain group.
Posted on 2/23/22 at 10:21 am to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
The gay character is a devious almost-villain
TBH I almost forgot he was gay (bi?) since there has been like 3-4 scenes about it in the entire series and one was them drinking at a bar together like friends. I think him and Ms. Turner scheming together is for sure going to be nefarious and leads to a lot of drama.
Posted on 2/23/22 at 11:59 am to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Having a gay villain isn't appeasing any group. It's the opposite of checking a pro-gay box.
And again, it's well within the frame of history we're covering.
Lord Alfred Douglas is a good example of someone in high society in the 1800s that was married with children and had an affair with Oscar Wilde (that led to Wilde's imprisonment). Most gay men at that point weren't outted (largely due to laws against sodomy and buggery) and lived double-lives.
That said, I was reading about Consuelo Vanderbilt yesterday and I think that's likely what the potential Gladys/Oscar match could be eluding to. Consuelo's mother would accept nothing less than a "great marriage" in name and fortune and turned down perfectly good suitors for her to marry the Duke of Marlborough. It ended up being a completely loveless marriage and he openly admitted he married her to save his estate.
There was a ton more to it that's worth reading if you're interested. Involving a faked illness by her mother, weeping brides, etc. Pretty dramatic stuff. And definitely some undertones we're seeing in the storyline on the show. I could only hope it gets this dramatic.
Consuelo Vanderbilt wiki
This post was edited on 2/23/22 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 2/23/22 at 6:22 pm to LaLadyinTx
quote:
I watched every single episode of Downton Abbey. I think the difference in the way shows introduce things then/now is that now, it's like every show has to check every box from the beginning...Gay character, check. Black storyline, check. 5-10 years ago, those things weren't immediately introduced to the show every time. Instead, they were introduced over time as a more natural part of the storyline.
Downton Abbey had Thomas trying to blackmail his gay lover the Duke of Crowborough(sp?) in the very first episode. They introduced a black character in season 4. There weren't that many black people in Britain at the time, but the jazz age(which was Rose's storyline on being a flapper) brought many to Europe, like Josephine Baker and Sidney Bechet. It all syncs up.
Black people were much more a part of New York City during Reconstruction and were not such a novelty as in a Lord's Manor in deepest Yorkshire. I think you're reaching, but not with any malice.
Since the first episode, Gladys Russell has reminded me of something that I couldn't quite put my finger on. It just hit me while watching the latest episode for some reason. The actress in costume is very reminiscent of one of Whistler's famous paintings... Symphony in White #1 (the White Girl). It caused a stir in the art world at the time and Whistler himself was quite the dandy and showman. He and Singer Sargent are favorites of mine. Here is the White Girl... and just so we don't get started the name refers to using white as a main color in painting which really hadn't been done before.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 9:23 am to BigAppleTiger
quote:
Here is the White Girl..
White Girl could be Gladys's twin!
Posted on 2/24/22 at 9:27 am to BigAppleTiger
Beautiful painting. Could pass for a young Laraine Newman as well.
Posted on 2/24/22 at 12:23 pm to Fewer Kilometers
This week’s episode lacked a little, but man did it set the stage for some great things in the coming episodes.
Posted on 3/1/22 at 2:49 pm to The Spleen
That British butler being surprised by someone being an invited dinner guest... That would never happen to Carson. He'd have known every guest and their shoe size before setting that table.
Posted on 3/1/22 at 3:09 pm to Fewer Kilometers
Yeah, but Carson's loyalty couldn't have been bought for $1,000, let alone $100.
To the people being triggered by "wokeness", don't watch it if you don't like it, but don't not watch it just because you think some boxes are being checked. It's either a good story or it isn't. Simple as that. So far this has been a pretty enjoyable story with lots of good performances by good actors.
To the people being triggered by "wokeness", don't watch it if you don't like it, but don't not watch it just because you think some boxes are being checked. It's either a good story or it isn't. Simple as that. So far this has been a pretty enjoyable story with lots of good performances by good actors.
Posted on 3/2/22 at 11:01 am to Fewer Kilometers
Pretty good episode last night. Felt kind of bad for Agnes in a way. Pretty embarrassing scene for her and it was jacked up the butler did that. If I'm her, I would have to fire him after that. Though he is one of the best characters on the show. She's too rich to just let her butler disrespect her like that.
I think the Russell's are definitely my favorite characters. I actually like Ada too.
There are two things that drag the show down a little bit for me. One I already knew, that it's too soap opera(ish) for me. But that's just a personal taste. The other is Marian and Peggy's acting. This is basically the first big thing that the actress that plays Marian has done so it's not like I'd expect her to be a great actress, but it's pushing her abilities. Peggy isn't a great actress either and and their scenes combined are pretty bad.
I know both of those wouldn't bother most people, but those are probably the two things that keep this for me just as a good show, instead of really good.
I think the Russell's are definitely my favorite characters. I actually like Ada too.
There are two things that drag the show down a little bit for me. One I already knew, that it's too soap opera(ish) for me. But that's just a personal taste. The other is Marian and Peggy's acting. This is basically the first big thing that the actress that plays Marian has done so it's not like I'd expect her to be a great actress, but it's pushing her abilities. Peggy isn't a great actress either and and their scenes combined are pretty bad.
I know both of those wouldn't bother most people, but those are probably the two things that keep this for me just as a good show, instead of really good.
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:38 pm to iwyLSUiwy
So who sent the note to Aunt Agnes, ratting out Banister??
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:42 pm to WinnaSez
quote:
So who sent the note to Aunt Agnes, ratting out Banister??
Church, the Butler for the Russells. He finally broke. He was having none of that shite. He excused himself right before the note was delivered.
This episode was good at fleshing out the various storylines, but a little lackluster as a standalone. Looking forward to see if Mrs. Morris is somehow involved in the allegations against George Russell.
Posted on 3/2/22 at 4:52 pm to WinnaSez
I kind of thought it was Berthas ladies maid looking to cause trouble for her
Posted on 3/3/22 at 9:43 am to TigerinATL
The last episode really showed the difference between the Crawleys and the families on this series, and how they and their servants see each other. The Crawleys have a familial attachment with their staff, the folks on this show... hired hands.
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