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Message
re: Supreme Leader Snoke's identity all but confirmed (spoilers obviously)
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:31 am to RollTide1987
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:31 am to RollTide1987
He defeated the Sith. There were no more. I mean at this point you are just arguing with what Lucas actually said. The Prophecy was about Anakin.
Now, you can argue that Luke is responsible for unbalancing it. Maybe that is why he went into hiding? He realized he had undone everything they had worked so hard to do?
Now, you can argue that Luke is responsible for unbalancing it. Maybe that is why he went into hiding? He realized he had undone everything they had worked so hard to do?
1
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:37 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
He defeated the Sith. There were no more.
We don't know that. Who is this Supreme Leader Snoke? He's obviously old enough to have been around when the Empire was in its heyday. If he's a Sith lord (and I think it's obvious that he is), then Vader didn't defeat the Sith at all.
Even if he isn't a Sith, as other people have pointed out, users of the Dark Side don't have to be Sith. And Maz tells Rey that the Sith, the Empire, and the First Order are merely different incarnations of the Dark Side. So Vader may have defeated the Sith, but he did not bring balance to the Force because the Dark Side is still very strong.
quote:
I mean at this point you are just arguing with what Lucas actually said. The Prophecy was about Anakin.
Lucas also said this:
LINK
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:42 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Thank you for reinforcing my point. Darth Vader didn't defeat the Dark Side or the Sith anymore than the Jedi did a thousand years before the events of The Phantom Menace. Therefore how can Vader be the subject of the prophecy?
I have two completely different theories on how your point could be flawed.
The first is that the force was supposedly "in balance" up to the point to when Sidious set the wheels of his plan in motion. So the Sith being around isn't what puts the force out of balance, but rather the dark side gaining control of the galaxy.
The second theory is that the Sith are truly no longer around. Keep in mind that Ben Solo took on a totally different moniker (Ren) than the Sith did (Darth). For all we know the Sith may truly be destroyed, and Snoke and the Knights of Ren are just dark side users, and not Sith.
Again, those are two totally different theories on my part, because we truly don't know as of this point in the new trilogy what is actually going on. But I would be shocked if the prophecy wasn't fulfilled by Anakin.
This post was edited on 12/29/15 at 12:45 am
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:52 am to Bamatab
The Dark Side of the Force still exists though. Even if the Sith were defeated, Vader still failed to defeat the Dark Side as evidenced by the existence of Kylo Ren and Supreme Leader Snoke.
In order for the prophecy to be fulfilled the Dark Side must be totally defeated by the Light.
In order for the prophecy to be fulfilled the Dark Side must be totally defeated by the Light.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:54 am to Freauxzen
quote:
They aren't going to bring in a new big bad
WTF is a big bad?
Posted on 12/29/15 at 1:09 am to RollTide1987
quote:
In order for the prophecy to be fulfilled the Dark Side must be totally defeated by the Light.
Says who? There was/is always going to be light and dark sides of the force (good and evil). I think the prophecy had more to do with the dark side gaining control of the galaxy. When the Jedi Order was at their peak they (and thus the light side) didn't "control" the galaxy, they "served" the galaxy (and were actually subject to the Senate). But when the Sith came into power, the dark side was actually controlling the galaxy through the Galactic Empire.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 1:14 am to Bamatab
Is the force only contained in this galaxy?
Do other Galaxy's have their separate force or is it Universal force?
Do other Galaxy's have their separate force or is it Universal force?
Posted on 12/29/15 at 1:22 am to cajunatc
quote:
Is the force only contained in this galaxy?
Do other Galaxy's have their separate force or is it Universal force?
I'm assuming it's a universal force since it is basically the energy of all living things.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 1:32 am to Bamatab
I always took the idea of bringing balance to the force to be the creation of a new way of mastering the force. It would not be the traditional Jedi path, would allow for incorporation of emotion and attachment without turning to the dark side. The new way would prevent the repeated fall of promising Jedi to the sith and so stop the cycle of Jedi-sith violence.
This may be way off. But destroying sith is not balance. Evening Jedi and sith doesn't sound like a great goal, and would only lead to continued violence. Besides, talk about bringing balance occurred when there were no known sith operating in the galaxy. In that context balance would mean more sith.
This may be way off. But destroying sith is not balance. Evening Jedi and sith doesn't sound like a great goal, and would only lead to continued violence. Besides, talk about bringing balance occurred when there were no known sith operating in the galaxy. In that context balance would mean more sith.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 2:59 am to Bamatab
quote:
In order for the prophecy to be fulfilled the Dark Side must be totally defeated by the Light.
I think all this prophecy and balance was purposefully vague, especially in the movies. By making statements and then leaving them open ended, Lucas allowed himself a lot of leeway in how he could proceed in future movies. Spelling everything out completely leaves little room for interpretation by the viewer and removes some of the mysticism of the force.
The same way song lyrics are vague and open to interpretation allows the listener to connect to the song in each his own way and make it more personal to each viewer. Detailing everything completely does nothing for Lucas or the viewer.
Scrutinizing scripts and ideologies are only natural and especially in this genre are to be expected, but I guarantee Lucas never put as much thought into this as the fanboys have. Because he didn't have to. He just left it vague.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 6:11 am to RollTide1987
Lucas also said this:
Don't trust that lying POS
quote:
People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society.
Don't trust that lying POS
Posted on 12/29/15 at 6:56 am to sparkinator
Lucas probably isn't even deep enough to put that kind of thought into it. He's rather shallow in his thinking.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 7:43 am to CaptainBrannigan
quote:
WTF is a big bad?
Main bad guy in a movie or series.
ie Darth Maul was a bad guy, Palpatine was the big bad.
Darth Vader was a bad guy, Palpatine was the big bad
Ben Solo is the bad guy, Snoke is the big bad.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 8:17 am to Bamatab
quote:
Bamatab
I think both those theories are pretty accurate. The prophecy is/was about Anakin. We can criticize Lucas's ability to adequately portray that all we want, but that is fact. Which is why, if this new trilogy tries to change that, it will be a disgrace.
Also, Ren is not a Sith. Abrams has pretty much said that. Snoke may be, but I have some reservations on that, as well as him being Plageuis. Abrams has said that Snoke is a new character to the Star Wars universe. So, him being a Sith wouldn't really work. Now it could just be word play that even though Plageuis has been in the universe "Snoke" has not. That we'll just have to wait and find out.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 10:59 am to GoCrazyAuburn
I liked the Saber fights in the prequels. Maybe it was the score though. Duel of the Fates and Jedi March on the temple were badass.
Don't care what anyone says. I realize it was 1977 but re-watching ANH, those ones are super campy.
Don't care what anyone says. I realize it was 1977 but re-watching ANH, those ones are super campy.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 11:11 am to STLhog
quote:
Maybe it was the score though. Duel of the Fates and Jedi March on the temple were badass.
Yep, the scores that were made for the prequels were phenomenal. I did not feel the same from TFA. The scores were good, but mostly re-hashes of the original stuff. The score during Order 66 was phenomenal as well. This was something I felt was slightly missing in these films, IMO.
quote:
Don't care what anyone says. I realize it was 1977 but re-watching ANH, those ones are super campy.
Lucas also kind of had a change of heart on light sabers between the OT and prequels. He originally wanted them to be samurai sword-esque with weight and what not, then was like frick that, then decided since they were light the should naturally be weightless, thus much easier to move.
This post was edited on 12/29/15 at 11:13 am
Posted on 12/29/15 at 11:15 am to STLhog
I can see why people complain about the saber fights in the prequels, and yes they definitely went on for way too long.
That said I don't mind them as much because this was an era when lightsaber fighting was an art and force users were plentiful. Makes perfect sense to me that on a slow day Anakin and Obi might pick up some non-lethal sabers and just go at it for awhile to keep their skills sharp.
That said I don't mind them as much because this was an era when lightsaber fighting was an art and force users were plentiful. Makes perfect sense to me that on a slow day Anakin and Obi might pick up some non-lethal sabers and just go at it for awhile to keep their skills sharp.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 11:21 am to Draconian Sanctions
Same. Did the go a little overboard? Probably. Did I enjoy every minute of it? Absolutely. 
One thing that they did really well though was usually test their opponent's force abilities before going to the saber. Once they knew they couldn't best their opponent by the force, they turned to the saber. That was something I didn't like in TFA. Ren had already shown he could completely immobilize Rey and slammed her into a tree. Why didn't he just do that? Thats what I don't like in stuff like this, where the character just somehow "forgets" these abilities he has used multiple times during fights, just so we can have a proper duel.
One thing that they did really well though was usually test their opponent's force abilities before going to the saber. Once they knew they couldn't best their opponent by the force, they turned to the saber. That was something I didn't like in TFA. Ren had already shown he could completely immobilize Rey and slammed her into a tree. Why didn't he just do that? Thats what I don't like in stuff like this, where the character just somehow "forgets" these abilities he has used multiple times during fights, just so we can have a proper duel.
This post was edited on 12/29/15 at 11:25 am
Posted on 12/29/15 at 11:22 am to RollTide1987
quote:
In order for the prophecy to be fulfilled the Dark Side must be totally defeated by the Light.
See, this has always confused me.
How would eliminating the dark side bring "balance" to the force.
Wouldn't "balance" require the presence of the dark side with equal strength as the light?
Posted on 12/29/15 at 11:24 am to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
Wouldn't "balance" require the presence of the dark side with equal strength as the light?
The main reason so many have issues with Lucas using the term "balance".
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