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Started By
Message
re: Supreme Leader Snoke's identity all but confirmed (spoilers obviously)
Posted on 12/28/15 at 9:30 pm to Mr Gardoki
Posted on 12/28/15 at 9:30 pm to Mr Gardoki
Darth Bane mini series.
0
Posted on 12/28/15 at 10:41 pm to KingSlayer
quote:
He thought he killed him, but he wasn't sure himself and he was afraid maybe Plagueis had found a way to escape death. He took him for dead though.
That is terrible writing then
"I'm not sure if he's dead, knowing he can create life with the force. Ahhhh, he probably is, I won't make sure"
Just got out of the movie again. Snoke doesn't look like a Munn, but that doesn't mean much. He could very much still be Plageuis though.
Finn is even more insufferable the second time. His character is just awful
This post was edited on 12/28/15 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:11 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
quote:
What did the Jedi think "bringing balance to the Force" meant? Simply eliminating the Sith? When they adopted Anakin, they weren't aware that the Sith had returned.
The prophecy was made long before Anakin iirc. Obviously they misinterpreted it, as mentioned by Yoda. They knew once they adopted him that there was possibly a Sith plot. So, in their mind if the Sith grew in power, the force would be unbalanced again, so the Chosen One at that point would help put a stop to it. It goes back to one of the original themes Obi Wan taught Luke, that your point of view drastically changes your opinion of the same information. The Jedi viewed a balanced force meaning no turmoil and no evil. The Sith did the same. Both did not understand the prophecy.
I'm pretty sure that Lucas' vision of the prophecy of Anakin "balancing" the force aligned with Yoda's interpretation. The "balancing" of the force was the elimination of Sith, or at least the Sith's galactic control.
Lucas' "vision" for his story was Vader's final redemptive act of "balancing" the force. I think Lucas' use of the word "balance" has confused a lot of fans since the word implies that the two sides of the force should co-exist with equal power. But I don't think that was his intent, and I think that is evident in the outline of his story.
This post was edited on 12/28/15 at 11:12 pm
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:19 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Snoke doesn't look like a Munn,
You're right, the picture on wookiepedia I thought had a resemblance. But Snoke definitely has, at least what used to be, a nose. Plus a much smaller cranium.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:23 pm to VaBamaMan
Yea, for some reason I thought his nose was missing, but I was wrong. Regardless, he looks terribly burned, which could definitely be Plageuis. We'll just have to see.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:34 pm to Bamatab
I haven't read through the whole thread, and I don't meant to hijack it, but I've been toying with a theory regarding the prophecy mentioned in the prequels. Is it possible, as Yoda said, the prophecy was misread and doesn't refer to Anakin? Perhaps the prophecy actually refers to Rey?
Darth Vader's death did not bring balance to the Force. There are still Sith in the galaxy and, ultimately, his death does nothing to fulfill the terms set forth by the prophecy. This also means Luke (at least at the present moment) can't be the person whom the prophecy referred to either because he likewise didn't bring balance to the Force.
Now all eyes fall on Rey and she is a worthy candidate for this prophecy. She seems to be far more powerful than any untrained Jedi we have run across thus far. Before even being trained by a Jedi Master, she had learned how to use the Force to influence the weak minded, she learned how to use the Force to pull objects toward her, and she held her own in a lightsaber duel. Her raw talents are far beyond what Luke and Anakin's were when we first met them. And finally....the Force called to her instead of it being the other way around. Before we met Rey, every other Force user had to find the Force for themselves. Not so with her. The Force actually guided her to it. She has to be special. She may even be the "chosen one" the prophecy spoke of.
Darth Vader's death did not bring balance to the Force. There are still Sith in the galaxy and, ultimately, his death does nothing to fulfill the terms set forth by the prophecy. This also means Luke (at least at the present moment) can't be the person whom the prophecy referred to either because he likewise didn't bring balance to the Force.
Now all eyes fall on Rey and she is a worthy candidate for this prophecy. She seems to be far more powerful than any untrained Jedi we have run across thus far. Before even being trained by a Jedi Master, she had learned how to use the Force to influence the weak minded, she learned how to use the Force to pull objects toward her, and she held her own in a lightsaber duel. Her raw talents are far beyond what Luke and Anakin's were when we first met them. And finally....the Force called to her instead of it being the other way around. Before we met Rey, every other Force user had to find the Force for themselves. Not so with her. The Force actually guided her to it. She has to be special. She may even be the "chosen one" the prophecy spoke of.
This post was edited on 12/28/15 at 11:35 pm
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:35 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Finn is even more insufferable the second time. His character is just awful
I don't mind his character, but it's really out of place in a Star Wars film. The whole quasi-ghetto lines they give him like "droid please" was over the top. Just made me cringe. Why couldn't he just be a normal guy instead of acting like a 5 year old? I'm 99% his character was written in like that to try to attract African Americans to see the movie,
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:38 pm to RollTide1987
Eh, Lucas has confirmed Anakin was the chosen one. His children are his redemption and allow him to fulfill the prophecy. If these movies try and make Rey the chosen one, I'll probably leave.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:41 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
That is terrible writing then "I'm not sure if he's dead, knowing he can create life with the force. Ahhhh, he probably is, I won't make sure"
Sorry, I suppose my post wasn't quite clear in that regard. Palpatine's killing of Plagueis is covered in the prologue and at the end of the book, so it's a bit complicated. He got Plagueis completely drunk, then he attacked him with force lightning. As Plagueis was gasping to draw a breath, Palpatine force choked him to suffocate him. A few minutes later, Palpatine went back into the room to inspect the body and he felt a strong ripple in the force, something more powerful than himself, which he wasn't sure of what it was. He thought maybe it was Plagueis since he had been experimenting on immortality and death.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:43 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
His children are his redemption and allow him to fulfill the prophecy.
But the prophecy is not fulfilled. If it was then Snoke and Kylo Ren would not exist.
When Lucas made those statements it was at a time when there wasn't going to be an Episode VII.
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:44 pm to KingSlayer
Ah, gotcha. That makes more sense
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:48 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
I haven't read through the whole thread, and I don't meant to hijack it, but I've been toying with a theory regarding the prophecy mentioned in the prequels. Is it possible, as Yoda said, the prophecy was misread and doesn't refer to Anakin? Perhaps the prophecy actually refers to Rey?
Darth Vader's death did not bring balance to the Force. There are still Sith in the galaxy and, ultimately, his death does nothing to fulfill the terms set forth by the prophecy. This also means Luke (at least at the present moment) can't be the person whom the prophecy referred to either because he likewise didn't bring balance to the Force.
Again, I'm pretty sure Lucas' intent for the prophecy was that Anakin would end the galactic reign of the dark side of the force (maybe not eliminating the dark side, but eliminating it's galactic grip). Everything that happens after ROTJ is now running outside of Lucas's vision. So it is possible that the new showrunners could change Lucas' vision, but I would be surprised if they did.
This post was edited on 12/28/15 at 11:50 pm
Posted on 12/28/15 at 11:53 pm to RollTide1987
Well first, the iirc, the prophecy never said how permanent said balance would be. It never said it would eliminate the dark side. That is impossible. As long as there is light, there will be darkness. Secondly, he made those statements when an episode VII book had been written, so it still applies. As far as the first 6 movies are concerned, Anakin was the chosen one. Which is why if these movies try and change that, I'll probably walk out.
This post was edited on 12/28/15 at 11:55 pm
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:06 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Well first, the iirc, the prophecy never said how permanent said balance would be.
Well at the time Qui-Gon revealed his thoughts on Anakin to the Jedi Council, the Sith had supposedly been extinct for a thousand years. The Dark Side was just beginning to rear its head again at that point. So I would imagine the Jedi must have believed the balance would be quite permanent, otherwise they wouldn't have been as intrigued by the news as they were.
If Rey was abandoned on the planet of Jakku at the age of 5-8 and her abandonment was a direct result of the destruction of Luke's Jedi order by the Dark Side, then that would mean the balance Vader provided at the end of Return of the Jedi lasted no more than 16-19 years after the fall of the Empire. That's 981-984 fewer years of peace then the time between the first fall of the Sith and the events of Phantom Menace.
What a wasted prophecy if that's the case.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:07 am to STLhog
quote:
The only thing the prequels got right was the saber duels
The prequels killed the lightsaber.
This post was edited on 12/29/15 at 12:12 am
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:12 am to RollTide1987
quote:
supposedly
I'm pretty sure Jedi could fall to the Dark Side without becoming a Sith. Also, other media (The Clone Wars cartoon) brings in other Dark Side users that aren't Sith. Which makes sense when dealing with something like the Force on large scales of both time and space. Someone somewhere is going to use it a different way.
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:13 am to OMLandshark
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:17 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Well at the time Qui-Gon revealed his thoughts on Anakin to the Jedi Council, the Sith had supposedly been extinct for a thousand years. The Dark Side was just beginning to rear its head again at that point.
The Jedi thought that the Sith ended with Darth Bane, but in reality the Sith just went into hiding (using the rule of two) while they tried to figure out a way to defeat the Jedi, and gain control of the galaxy. They were never eliminated, they just weren't "seen" by the Jedi.
This post was edited on 12/29/15 at 12:19 am
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:27 am to Bamatab
quote:
The Jedi thought that the Sith ended with Darth Bane, but in reality the Sith just went into hiding (using the rule of two) while they tried to figure out a way to defeat the Jedi, and gain control of the galaxy. They were never eliminated, they just weren't "seen" by the Jedi.
Thank you for reinforcing my point. Darth Vader didn't defeat the Dark Side or the Sith anymore than the Jedi did a thousand years before the events of The Phantom Menace. Therefore how can Vader be the subject of the prophecy?
This post was edited on 12/29/15 at 12:28 am
Posted on 12/29/15 at 12:29 am to RollTide1987
Because it wasn't a well thought out prophecy
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